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Legality of renovating your own bathroom?
- Thread Starter branimal
- Start date
army judge
Super Moderator
New York City isn't an easy municipality to do anything, especially remodeling.
The first thing you MUST before starting any renovation in New York City is contact the managing agent of the building (or the HOA) in which you reside to obtain a copy of the alteration rules for the building or property site.
You will discover those rules are usually found in a rather large set of documents or binder(s).
If you act before you research, you could find serious consequences for renovating anything without the proper permissions and permits, all in writing.
Most buildings maintain established blackout times that prohibit any work on weekends, after certain hours, on certain religious holidays (or over the entire holiday period), and with many being far more restrictive (such as who can do the work)!!!
Some buildings only allow the work to be performed, between July 1st and Sept. 30th, when buildings in the city tend to have fewer occupants because New Yorkers flock to The Hamptons, The Jersey Shore, or jet away to international vacations.
You'll need the approval of your HOA board, if that applies, or the building owner/agent/
Don't begin ANY work, city permit needed or not, before you secure approval from the co-op, condo, or HOA board.
That means you must provide plans for their review, insurance certificates, copies of licenses for contractors, and other paperwork, to the managing agent, board resident, or correct official.
The "board" will have your plans reviewed by an architect retained by the building to ensure they comply with building rules and building code requirements.
You, of course, will be billed for this review.
Trust me when I say it will cost YOU hundreds or thousands of dollars, before you've pounded one nail, screwed in one screw, or laid one tile.
If you fail to get board (and city approval), it will get even more expensive, and contentious.
So, don't proceed (no matter how qualified you may be) without making sure you are authorized to proceed.
Excuse me, now my rant about HOA, condo, and co-op board.
I will never understand why anyone thinks they are BUYING or even paid for in CASH property under the draconian rule of the royals, known as an HOA, co-op, or condo board.
Those "critters" tend to often be more outrageous than elected, (or appointed) city or county officials.
Rant over, sorry, but I can't stop myself.
If your board (or building official) has approved your plans, you'll probably need an architect or engineer.
Yes, architect or engineer.
Whichever one you HIRE can file the necessary application with the Department of Buildings
<=============================>
THESE FINE BUREAUCRATS: NYC Department of Buildings
<=============================>
for the work permit(s), if required.
Many contractors use an expediter, a professional who specializes in preparing and navigating the complex web of necessary paperwork and inspections to work the permit through the bureacratic sewers.
It gets better and better, mate.
I know this from the 18 months I had to spend at a certain HQ in NYC, while my firm renovated the corporate digs I was assigned.
The assignment was 18 months.
I lived in a hotel for 12 of those months, and eventually spent the remaining five months in that same hotel.
I traveled back to my home weekly.
Suffice to say, the corporate apartment was never occupied by me, but the firm did finish the work Summer of 2003. LOL
My saga began about March of 2002, yeah after "911" of the previous year!!!!
The building was in a landmark district area.
So, if you live in a building or district that has landmark status, you first need to secure approval from the Landmarks Preservation Commission.
---
--- That would be these folks
Landmarks Preservation Commission
'''
'''
If your building was built before April 1st of 1987, you'll need to have an asbestos inspection completed by a certified asbestos inspector, at your expense.
Then your architect or engineer can obtain Department of Buildings approval by either certifying the plans, or having them reviewed by one of the department's examiners.
Certification by YOUR architect or engineer is much faster, because the permit is often issued within 48 hours, as opposed to the bureaucrat 30-60 days. LOL
Okay, I'm done except to say you have choices.
However, the wrong choices will cost you dearly, even more dearly than the correct choices.
Good luck, and let us hear back about the journey upon which you're poised to embark.
Bon chance.......
The first thing you MUST before starting any renovation in New York City is contact the managing agent of the building (or the HOA) in which you reside to obtain a copy of the alteration rules for the building or property site.
You will discover those rules are usually found in a rather large set of documents or binder(s).
If you act before you research, you could find serious consequences for renovating anything without the proper permissions and permits, all in writing.
Most buildings maintain established blackout times that prohibit any work on weekends, after certain hours, on certain religious holidays (or over the entire holiday period), and with many being far more restrictive (such as who can do the work)!!!
Some buildings only allow the work to be performed, between July 1st and Sept. 30th, when buildings in the city tend to have fewer occupants because New Yorkers flock to The Hamptons, The Jersey Shore, or jet away to international vacations.
You'll need the approval of your HOA board, if that applies, or the building owner/agent/
Don't begin ANY work, city permit needed or not, before you secure approval from the co-op, condo, or HOA board.
That means you must provide plans for their review, insurance certificates, copies of licenses for contractors, and other paperwork, to the managing agent, board resident, or correct official.
The "board" will have your plans reviewed by an architect retained by the building to ensure they comply with building rules and building code requirements.
You, of course, will be billed for this review.
Trust me when I say it will cost YOU hundreds or thousands of dollars, before you've pounded one nail, screwed in one screw, or laid one tile.
If you fail to get board (and city approval), it will get even more expensive, and contentious.
So, don't proceed (no matter how qualified you may be) without making sure you are authorized to proceed.
Excuse me, now my rant about HOA, condo, and co-op board.
I will never understand why anyone thinks they are BUYING or even paid for in CASH property under the draconian rule of the royals, known as an HOA, co-op, or condo board.
Those "critters" tend to often be more outrageous than elected, (or appointed) city or county officials.
Rant over, sorry, but I can't stop myself.
If your board (or building official) has approved your plans, you'll probably need an architect or engineer.
Yes, architect or engineer.
Whichever one you HIRE can file the necessary application with the Department of Buildings
<=============================>
THESE FINE BUREAUCRATS: NYC Department of Buildings
<=============================>
for the work permit(s), if required.
Many contractors use an expediter, a professional who specializes in preparing and navigating the complex web of necessary paperwork and inspections to work the permit through the bureacratic sewers.
It gets better and better, mate.
I know this from the 18 months I had to spend at a certain HQ in NYC, while my firm renovated the corporate digs I was assigned.
The assignment was 18 months.
I lived in a hotel for 12 of those months, and eventually spent the remaining five months in that same hotel.
I traveled back to my home weekly.
Suffice to say, the corporate apartment was never occupied by me, but the firm did finish the work Summer of 2003. LOL
My saga began about March of 2002, yeah after "911" of the previous year!!!!
The building was in a landmark district area.
So, if you live in a building or district that has landmark status, you first need to secure approval from the Landmarks Preservation Commission.
---
--- That would be these folks
Landmarks Preservation Commission
'''
'''
If your building was built before April 1st of 1987, you'll need to have an asbestos inspection completed by a certified asbestos inspector, at your expense.
Then your architect or engineer can obtain Department of Buildings approval by either certifying the plans, or having them reviewed by one of the department's examiners.
Certification by YOUR architect or engineer is much faster, because the permit is often issued within 48 hours, as opposed to the bureaucrat 30-60 days. LOL
Okay, I'm done except to say you have choices.
However, the wrong choices will cost you dearly, even more dearly than the correct choices.
Good luck, and let us hear back about the journey upon which you're poised to embark.
Bon chance.......
Highwayman
Well-Known Member
OP didn't say it was NYC, but of course anything is possible.
This all depends upon the city/town/village that you live in. You would need to contact your local building department/inspector. Many municipalities have this information available online.
army judge
Super Moderator
I checked his IP addy.
You're right, he could be from Montana, and just visiting NYC.
Highwayman
Well-Known Member
Highwayman
Well-Known Member
I'll take that to mean that the condo is in NYC.
I lived in NYC most of my life. Your renovations don't seem to fall under the jurisdiction of NYC Buildings. You need to be more concerned with what your condo board/HOA has to say about it.
If there is no actual plumbing work done I don't see NYC Buildings needing to be involved.
Highwayman
Well-Known Member
What you describe certainly sounds like it falls under "replacing bathroom fixtures", which does not require any permit.
army judge
Super Moderator
You first need t discuss your plans with your HOA or board management.
If not one of those, your building management.
Why?
Because I'm sure they'll be able to specifically answer your questions, give you clearance, and/or direct you to the person, place, or entity who can give you the proper guidance and direction.
We aren't a governmental entity, and while we can say YES or NO, our answers(s) are meaningless, in that they offer you no cover or force of law.
Again, NYC claims "311" is supposed to be a "services traffic cop" of sorts.
When you called "311", what were you told?
When you spoke with your building management, HOA, condo or coop board, what were you told?
Here is their website AGAIN, mate:
...
...
311 | City of New York
...
...
From an insurance perspective if I were to hire a non licensed plumber, any damage he causes to my unit I'd have to sue him for. Any damage the plumber causes to adjacent units, those neighbors can sue me personally.
If I were to do the work myself, any damage I cause to my unit is my own cost. Any damage I cause to other units is covered by my homeowners liability policy.
This is why licensed insured craftsmen are in required by certain buildings. They carry insurance to cover accidents.
Any legal experts want to weigh in?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If I were to do the work myself, any damage I cause to my unit is my own cost. Any damage I cause to other units is covered by my homeowners liability policy.
This is why licensed insured craftsmen are in required by certain buildings. They carry insurance to cover accidents.
Any legal experts want to weigh in?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes agreed. I just want to be prepared for any curveballs they throw my way.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
army judge
Super Moderator
I'm a licensed attorney in many states, and before the fedral bar.
I'm judge, and have instructed at a couple law schools, and for the US Army's JAG School at the UVA.
That said, you're not going to get specific legal advice over the internet.
Even if someone were to call it that, you'd be foolish to take it as gospel.
The issues swirling potentially about your head, mate, involve more than financial liability.
That said, if its legal advice you seek, sufficient to insulate you from your actions, you'll need to hire an attorney.
Highwayman
Well-Known Member
You are over-simplifying things.
Being licensed does not mean you won't have to sue the contractor, and being licensed doesn't mean the contractor is even competent.
I had a licensed plumber re-do the heating system in my house and he almost burned my house down.
You are simply replacing a tub, sink, and toilet. You shouldn't be making a federal case out of it. What demolition work is being done for that work???
As the Judge advised - talk to your condo board first. Worry about anything else after you get whatever information you need from them.
I meant to say licensed insured bonded contractor. I believe, If said person burned your house down, his insurance would cover you.
I'm not making a federal case out of it, the board is.
I suppose they are worried I may cut a water pipe and cause water damage elsewhere. But my homeowners liability insurance covers that.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
army judge
Super Moderator
There';s the problem I alluded to my new friend, those boards (condo or co-op and its kissin' cousin, the infamous HOA) rule supreme.
You can't do much of anything, or use blue when your dictator says use red.
Its not about insurance at this point, mate, its about if the royals who you allow to rule you decide if you can sneeze, cough, or breathe without their blessing.
If you proceed, the royal rulers will dispatch their knights to box your ears.
I jest, but I'm sure you see my point, mate.
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