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Gift fraud?

Discussion in 'Mortgages & Financing' started by grimelli, Aug 19, 2018.

  1. grimelli

    grimelli Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Jurisdiction:
    Iowa
    My mother loaned my spouse and I $10,000 to buy a house. My spouse convinced her it had to filed as a gift and so she signed a gift letter. I wrote her an iou the day she gave him a cashier's check. I have partially paid back but he's claiming he had no intention to pay back. Is there anything we can do? L8an originated in 2007
     
  2. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Your spouse didn't sign an IOU, apparently you did.

    Your spouse believes the money was a gift.

    You think otherwise.

    This is an issue you, your spouse, and the other party will have to resolve.

    I see no legal issue here, unless the bank believes someone committed mortgage fraud.

    It is never wise to kick a sleeping tiger!
     
  3. grimelli

    grimelli Law Topic Starter New Member

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    My spouse agreed at the time it was a loan, admitted in therapy it was a loan and agreed to unacceptable repayment terms of $50 per month. He's also under investigation for identity theft and by the IRS
     
  4. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Cool story, did you have a legal question?
     
  5. grimelli

    grimelli Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Contact the mortgage company or sue him?
     
  6. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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  7. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Are you asking IF you can sue your spouse?

    I think suing one's spouse is extremely difficult, if not impossible.

    Why?

    It would be akin to suing yourself.

    The lender (perhaps the donor) MIGHT be able to sue someone.
     
  8. grimelli

    grimelli Law Topic Starter New Member

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    No my mom would have to sue him. I'm disabled and according to my divorce attorney he will have to assume my debts, which are almost non existent. So maybe she should sue us both even though I've repaid half
     
  9. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    If the donor sues for repayment of a GIFT attested to by a letter on a mortgage application, someone might open up a can of whip ass on themselves.

    You should be addressing your questions to your divorce attorney who is familiar with all the players of this sordid little saga.
     
  10. grimelli

    grimelli Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Would that can be on her or him? You sound much like my son's instructor in AIT at Ft. Sill by the way
     
  11. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    It was the mortgage company that wanted the gift letter. Otherwise you wouldn't have gotten the loan.

    He has no obligation to pay any of it back, neither do you, nor does your mother have any right to collect as the gift letter is irrevocable since it was a condition of getting the loan.

    That you paid any of it back was your prerogative and doesn't obligate your spouse.

    Doesn't matter. It's the gift letter that counts. There is no such thing as reneging on something you weren't legally obligated to do.

    Which has nothing to do with the $10,000.

    She'd lose. She signed the gift letter.

    She'd lose against you, too, since your IOU was fraudulent.

    Could very well be. The old boy did get around quite a bit. :D
     
    army judge likes this.
  12. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    The Army has a very unique way it prepares its instructors.

    Army instructors teach many subjects, but we tend to all do it the same way, the right way; the Army way.
     
  13. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    "That's a fact, Jack!" (Bill Murray in Stripes)
     
  14. zddoodah

    zddoodah Well-Known Member

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    What does "it had to be filed" mean? What is "it," and where did "it" have to "be filed"?

    So...was it a loan or a gift? If it was a loan, why did you characterize it as a gift? Was your intent to commit fraud on someone (e.g., the mortgage lender)?

    I'm confident you "can do" a great many things. What exactly is it that you want to know?

    Huh?

    I read through the whole thread, and I'm still not sure what you're asking. It sounds like your spouse or both of you jointly committed mortgage fraud. You've now admitted to that in a public forum.
     
  15. grimelli

    grimelli Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I'm just recently found out many things that are illegal. I'm not an idiot, but when I was diagnosed I let him take over. I have managed to sort out everything but this. My mom and I did not intend to commit fraud, we just did what my spouse asked as we had always done.
     
  16. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    No need to defend yourself to strangers who'll never know you, or meet you.

    You were free to do whatever you did, just as are to continue making choices as you live your life.
     
  17. grimelli

    grimelli Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I'm just looking for clarification as to how to handle this. I have never knowingly tried to act against the law and am attempting to make the correct reparations. My divorce attorney is not versed in this area which is why I attempted here. What would the attorney practice I would need to help clear this up?
     
  18. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Most divorce attorneys I know could offer you guidance on these matters.

    The issue here is simple.

    Your relative gifted you and your spouse money.

    The gift was substantiated by a letter for the lender.

    The gift can never become a debt.

    It is for all of perpetuity a gift, for which the donor can seek a tax set off (in some cases).

    You can search the internet using phrases for which you seek additional information.
     
    Disabled Vet likes this.
  19. zddoodah

    zddoodah Well-Known Member

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    How you handle it is up to you, and you should make a determination in consultation with a local attorney.

    I assume someone represented to the mortgage lender that the money from your mother was a gift. However, you said you gave your mother an IOU. I obviously don't know what that IOU said, but it's probably evidence that the money was a loan and not a gift. You didn't say if your husband signed the IOU, but I will assume that the IOU would be sufficient for your mother to sue you and get a judgment, but it may be that the statute of limitations has expired. Do you think your mother will sue you?

    Someone committed fraud on the lender. You say you didn't intend to do that and that you merely "did what my spouse asked." You did not, however, say what it was that you did at his request. You claim that you didn't intend to commit fraud. However, if you signed something in which you represented to the lender that the money was a gift and not a loan, that's fraud. Will the lender ever discover that this happened and take any action? We have no way of knowing.

    If your divorce attorney cannot give you basic guidance on the issue, then you might consider seeking someone else. What sort of attorney might you consult other than a divorce attorney? To a large extent, that depends on how you answer the questions I asked.
     
  20. grimelli

    grimelli Law Topic Starter New Member

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    My spouse signed the gift letter, he did not sign the IOU, the IOU was for the down payment and other money he borrowed. If suing me is necessary my mother will do so and I will answer honestly. My signature was not requested on the gift letter
     

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