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Can she send a lawyer inher place!

Discussion in 'Protective & Restraining Orders' started by Kjcdmg, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Kjcdmg

    Kjcdmg Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Jurisdiction:
    Illinois
    An ex girlfriend and I have filed orders of protection against each other. She lives in California and I in Illinois.

    I figured we both would not show up and then have the restraining orders put into effect. I was okay with that.

    However, at the preliminary hearing in Illinois, where I am the petitioner, the judge stated the respondent faxed in a request for a continuance and had states she was working on attaining a lawyer. There was a term he used like pro se or something?

    Is it possible for her to send a lawyer on her behalf? If so, how can I ask the questions I feel I have that would prove she's threatened me and harassed me?

    Should I now get a lawyer myself?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  2. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    "Pro Se" means going to court without a lawyer. Maybe she filed the motion "pro se" and will continue to be "pro se" until she actually gets one.

    Yes.

    You can't ask her anything if she's not there.

    And, frankly, if you have to rely on questioning her to get your protective order, you probably aren't going to get it unless your testimony AND evidence is compelling.

    Up to you.

    Now for the question everybody is thinking.

    You live across the country from each other. Why are you two hassling each other to the point where this is going to court? Why not just leave each other alone?
     
    leslie82 and hrforme like this.
  3. zddoodah

    zddoodah Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify, you cannot file an order (neither can your ex). Have you simply filed petitions for orders, or has the court actually granted the orders? At least in your case, it sounds like you have only filed a petition and that the court hasn't actually issued an order.

    So...why does either of you need a protective order regarding the other? I have a guess, but I'll hold my (virtual) tongue for the moment.

    If you're asking what "pro se" means, it's Latin and, literally means "for him." Google it it you want to know more, but it is a term that refers to a self-represented party.

    Assuming she has the funds to pay a lawyer, of course it is.

    If you can't prove these things without asking her questions, then why on Earth did you file whatever it is that you're filing? What would you do if, instead of hiring a lawyer, she just blew off the matter entirely (a not entirely unreasonable thing since you live 2,000 miles apart)? Do you really feel competent to examine a witness in a courtroom?

    I'm guessing you don't really know what you're doing, so maybe, but I don't really see the point of this whole exercise given how far from each other you live.
     
  4. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    That was my guess, too, but I'm trying to be kind these days.
     
  5. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    You don't say....:D
     
  6. Kjcdmg

    Kjcdmg Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I do have evidence that shows harassment and threats. But asking questions would be beneficial, too, especially as a supplement to the evidence. My thought is if she would lie about making certain threats against me, it would strengthen the evidence since she would then not only have made the threats against me but would also be proven to have lied. To me, it's unfathomable she'd fight this given the evidence she knows I have, but here we are.

    Regarding how and why we arrived here, she made these threats to me and I turned them over to Human Resources at our place of employment, leading to her termination. She then filed a temporary restraining order against me since I gloated that she lost her job. I admittedly spiked the football hard, so to speak, but I know I can and have stopped. I then filed one based on the threats she made to me that led to her termination at work.

    I felt that if she filed one against me and I wouldn't waste my time since she's out of my life now, as you have alluded to, then I would do the same to her assuming she'd also ignore it for the same reason (2000 miles away, we're done anyway).

    We both have been granted the temporary orders and now have dates set for hearings to see if they will be made permanent.

    I am here for advice so in spite of the attempts to admonish me I am still interested in advice. If you think it makes sense for me to blow off both of these hearings and save time and money, I would be interested in that feedback.
     
  7. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    First you think about this, and decide what is your best play.

    If it were me, I'd show up at the hearing and see what happens.

    It'll work a lot like Judge Judy or Judge Mathis.

    If fortune shines on you, and it sometimes does, she might not show up and you'll get a default judgment.

    If she shows, you tell your story, she tells hers.

    Be brief, and only tell the facts.

    Answer any questions the judge asks, and remain polite and calm at all times.
     
    Kjcdmg likes this.
  8. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    With the distance you now have between you I think you are both wasting your time.
    You apparently don't need a protective order at this point, but you certainly don't want one to be issued against you either. Your concern should be focused on defending against a protective order.
     
    Kjcdmg likes this.
  9. zddoodah

    zddoodah Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak to the courts in Illinois, but it would be pretty rare for a court considering a garden variety restraining order to hold an evidentiary hearing.

    Do you plan on going to California any time in the foreseeable future? If so, do you intend to seek out contact with her? Do you have any reason to believe she plans on going to Illinois any time in the foreseeable future and, if so, to seek out contact with you? Sounds to me like the sooner you both stop behaving like little children the better off you'll both be.
     
    Kjcdmg likes this.
  10. Kjcdmg

    Kjcdmg Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Do you plan on going to California any time in the foreseeable future? If so, do you intend to seek out contact with her? Do you have any reason to believe she plans on going to Illinois any time in the foreseeable future and, if so, to seek out contact with you? Sounds to me like the sooner you both stop behaving like little children the better off you'll both be.[/QUOTE]

    Oh, I agree with this. But once she served me indicating she was seeking a restraining order, I felt I had to do the same. I did contact a lawyer today and he said we both are wasting our time. He stated he would send her a letter requesting that we both dismiss the attempts to get the permanent restraining orders since we both have more to lose than gain and in doing so, we both agree to stop contacting each other moving forward.
     
  11. Kjcdmg

    Kjcdmg Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I guess I remain confused based on responses in this thread. One poster indicated that if I have to ask the respondent questions, I don't have much of a case, and then another poster said that a court likely wouldn't have an evidentiary hearing.

    If I can't provide the evidence I have, and I can't ask her questions, I am not sure what else there is to do!

    But anyway, I do have a lawyer now and he has the same thoughts that I have and that many of you have stated. It's stupid for it to have gotten to this point since we live 2000 miles away and he's going to try to explain to her that we both have more to lose than to gain and we'll see if she's smart enough to agree to drop these requests and also agree to end contact without getting the courts involved.
     
  12. Kjcdmg

    Kjcdmg Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I do appreciate the real feedback some of you gave.

    I also had to chuckle at the sarcastic responses people gave. A person without a legal background goes to a legal forum, where we are invited to ask questions of people with legal knowledge, and those with legal knowledge admonished the person without legal knowledge by saying he doesn't know what he's doing. By showing up here and asking for advice, that's pretty much what I was admitting. Hence, the questions I asked. :)

    It's like the car mechanic who ridicules the person who doesn't know how to fix his own car. The mechanic apparently misses the point that the other person's lack of knowledge is the reason the mechanic has a job.
     
  13. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    Let's put this in perspective.

    If the car owner goes to a mechanic and asks "How do I check my oil?" the mechanic will show him where the dipstick is and how to read it. But if the owner asks "How do I overhaul my engine?" the mechanic is likely to say "If you have to ask then you shouldn't try it and you'll need a mechanic to do it."

    Now let's relate that to legal questions.

    If you came here asking "How do I file for a continuance?" We would tell you how and direct you to the proper form because it's a relatively simple procedure.

    But when you ask something like "How do I win my case if I can't question my opponent?" that tells us that you are in over your head and need lawyer.

    See how that works?

    ;)
     
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  14. Kjcdmg

    Kjcdmg Law Topic Starter New Member

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    In my initial post, I asked if she can really send a lawyer in her place. I also asked if I should get a lawyer. I guess I'm still not seeing what I was so far off in coming here.

    But thanks. You're cute.
     
  15. Kjcdmg

    Kjcdmg Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I already asked for and received a continuance. I think some of you completely misread what I asked and also assumed a great deal based on your super knowledge.
     
  16. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Google, Bing, Yahoo, or most any search engine could answer most of anyone's questions.
    Try it, you'll like it.
     
  17. zddoodah

    zddoodah Well-Known Member

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    I think I said both of those things. An "evidentiary hearing" (at least as I used the term) means a hearing at which witnesses are examined. Normally, something like this will be handled based on the written submissions and by any argument made at the hearing. It would be extremely unusual for the party seeking a restraining order actually to examine the person against whom the order is sought on the stand.

    I answered your question about her sending a lawyer in her stead very quickly and succinctly. As for the rest of this, I did comment that you don't apparently know what your doing, and, hence, should consider getting a lawyer, but that I didn't see the purpose of the whole exercise given that you two don't live anywhere near each other.
     

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