Justice System, Police, Courts 2 years to get a pre-lim

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

boysinivy

New Member
After 24 court appearances and almost 2 years since arrest including 5 amended police reports, none of them making any sense, we finally had a prelim hearing. All our attorney's questions were shot down. The DA siting that this is not the hearing to ask these questions. It is only to show a crime has been committed. The judge over ruled every single question our attorneys asked.

Before getting to this prelim we had been through 4 different judges. Apparently this is normal as they switch off every few months. My question is this, if just one of these judges read the police report(s) he/she would want to ask what is going on. And what kind of chance does a case have when switching judges??

My next question is this. Now that we have been ordered to answer the charges against us, this ends our relationship with the attorney we have had since the beginning. Now I have been given a public defender because I have spent all the money I had in savings for this big time special attorney, who talked about how he was going to get this case dismissed bla bla bla. Only one of us can continue to use our attorney and start all over retaining him which means another $7500! Is this right? How is this getting a fair hearing?
 
boysinivy said:
After 24 court appearances and almost 2 years since arrest including 5 amended police reports, none of them making any sense, we finally had a prelim hearing. All our attorney's questions were shot down. The DA siting that this is not the hearing to ask these questions. It is only to show a crime has been committed. The judge over ruled every single question our attorneys asked.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "5 amended police reports"? Do you mean the same report was CHANGED five times? Or, there were supplements or follow-up reports added tothe original reports 4 times? Or, something else?

And what sort of questions did the judge shoot down?

Understand that a preliminary hearing is a hearing to determine if there is sufficient probable cause to bring a felony to trial. Many motions and other actions should be taken before or after the prelim, so it could be that the actions by your attorney were being made at an improper time.

Before getting to this prelim we had been through 4 different judges. Apparently this is normal as they switch off every few months. My question is this, if just one of these judges read the police report(s) he/she would want to ask what is going on. And what kind of chance does a case have when switching judges??
Click to expand...
A preliminary hearing is heard only once. The judges rotating on and off that particular bench should have had little to no bearing on the matter unless you had numerous motions being heard and each being heard by different judges.

If the matter was continued for 2 years, then it was likely done so with at least partial complicity on the part of your attorney(s). They could have objected and pushed for the matter to move forward.

And, apparently a judge read the report and heard the testimony and stiull bound the matter over for trial.

My next question is this. Now that we have been ordered to answer the charges against us, this ends our relationship with the attorney we have had since the beginning. Now I have been given a public defender because I have spent all the money I had in savings for this big time special attorney, who talked about how he was going to get this case dismissed bla bla bla.
Click to expand...
Ah, so, continuing the case for two years provided this attorney more billable hours. In other words, he was being paid to keep the matter going. I am sure he got paid for each motion, consultation, and filing he made. Of course he had an incentive to overplay his hand and offer you, perhaps, greater hope than might have been reasonably expected.

What does your new attorney have to say about your chances?

Only one of us can continue to use our attorney and start all over retaining him which means another $7500! Is this right? How is this getting a fair hearing?
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "only one of us?" Is this a case with multiple defendants? If so, that might also explain the time delay to get to a preliminary hearing. Especially if you were all being represented by the same attorney. Quite frankly, if there are multiple defendants, it is probably unwise for all of you to be represented by one attorney as it is possible that one or more of the defendants might want to work out a deal where they will agree to roll over on their companions in exchange for a deal. Your interests may not all lie in the same direction so you each need your own counsel.
 
xxxx

xxxx
xxxxx

xxxx


stupid, stupid, stupid me....
 
Last edited:
The long delay has to do with your agreeing to waive time. You could have this all over with long ago if you wanted.
 
Oh my gosh. Let me see if I can answer all your questions.

Re: 5 amended police reports. Answer: Yes the original police report has been changed 5x's. Each one presented on the day we hoped to have a prelim but was delayed due to new report.

Re: Presented by same attorney Answer: Yes we were. We have all stuck together. Even when they tried to strike a deal. If I would admit to sales then our guests with possession charges would walk. No deal was made for my ex. My guests said no. Do not take it. And I did not. I would have to admit I'm guilty to something I am not in order for them to be free. Since I didn't the deal for them was off.

Re: questions shot down turning prelim. Any questions not pertaining to what was found on the property "drug wise" was over ruled. The DA kept saying questions were not about this hearing. Questions asked from our attorney and the tenant (who police had turn himself in a year later) were over ruled because this was not the hearing to ask "those" questions.

Re: Counsel Answer: Now that prelim is over we no longer can use our attorney. Only one of us. Which would be my ex with the guns. Now that I am broke, I have been given a P.D. and in order for my ex to continue using our attorney, he has to pay another $7500. I am the only one who has had a problem with this attorney. I thought a big ego might be a good thing. But in this case, it has not served us well.
 
I know this to be true. In fact during one of our appearances when the judge went down the line asking if we understand we have a right to a speedy trial bla bla bla I asked what does a speedy trial mean. After it was explained to me, I liked that option. But was told not going that direction.
 
Re: the rotating judges. Because we have been in court for almost 2 years just waiting to be heard, we have seen a constant rotation of judges. Not the prelim judge
 
Re: What does our attorney say about our chances. Answer: He doesn't seem to have the same confidence as before. He does not and has never really communicated with us until the day of court. When asked a question he feels he has answered before he becomes very aggravated. A common answer we hear from him and which has angered me the most is "the cops do this or that and get away with it" or That's just the way it works. Always something along those lines.
 
I want to say again, I have not changed things or worded things to look better for us. I am stating facts. This forum has been the best law forum I have found out there. Your responses are real and curious. Not of smart ass or sarcastic demeanor. Thank you!
 
boysinivy said:
Oh my gosh. Let me see if I can answer all your questions.

Re: 5 amended police reports. Answer: Yes the original police report has been changed 5x's. Each one presented on the day we hoped to have a prelim but was delayed due to new report.
Click to expand...
It is generally unlawful; to AMEND a report (i.e. actually CHANGE it once it has been filed, approved, and submitted to the court). Supplements to APPEND, yes - actual edits to the original report, no. I'd be very curious to know what agency would permit such a thing and what DA and court would allow it! I suspect that what you are seeing are appended reports, not amended. (i.e. reports that have been added to but not altered from the original)

However, depending on the nature of the offense, it is possible that you had preliminary reports of some kind and THOSE might be permitted to be amended.

Re: questions shot down turning prelim. Any questions not pertaining to what was found on the property "drug wise" was over ruled. The DA kept saying questions were not about this hearing. Questions asked from our attorney and the tenant (who police had turn himself in a year later) were over ruled because this was not the hearing to ask "those" questions.
Click to expand...
The prelim is about whether or not there is probable cause to hold you over on the charges, it is not about fishing for other things. That can be done at trial if relevant, or as part of different motions (such as suppression hearings, etc.).

Re: Counsel Answer: Now that prelim is over we no longer can use our attorney. Only one of us. Which would be my ex with the guns. Now that I am broke, I have been given a P.D. and in order for my ex to continue using our attorney, he has to pay another $7500. I am the only one who has had a problem with this attorney. I thought a big ego might be a good thing. But in this case, it has not served us well.
Click to expand...
Perhaps it is time to deal.
 
Regarding amended police reports: Answer: These are amended not appended reports. These reports have been changed from the original. All my suspicions and concerns are coming to light here. And I am sick.
 
boysinivy said:
What does come next after prelim?
Click to expand...
If the matter is bound over for trial, then the next step is ... trial. There can be motions and other actions before then, but the matter goes to trial unless there is a plea deal.
 
boysinivy said:
Regarding amended police reports: Answer: These are amended not appended reports. These reports have been changed from the original. All my suspicions and concerns are coming to light here. And I am sick.
Click to expand...
You say "these reports" as in plural. WHAT sort of reports are we talking about here?

What did your attorney say about these "amended" reports?
 
boysinivy said:
Okay thank you Army Judge. Scared me for a minute
Click to expand...

Without revealing personal information that could identify you or any of your alleged cohorts, please tell us the facts of the case. That is to say, what caused you and your pals to be arrested, where you were arrested, and what you were originally alleged to have done.

One of your pals may be a rat, or has agreed to snitch you or the others out.
Some of you may have been set up.
Think about things before this went down, and how this has tracked for two years.
You do know about wires, right?
Wires can be used to do wonderful things.
Let's ignore that for now.
But, it's best to sever any remaining ties.

Be advised, most PDS are very good.
You just have to know how to approach them.
Get on their right side, and they can make magic.
Know this, the PDS I know, hate to lose.
That can be leveraged to your advantage.

Please tell us the prior criminal history of each person arrested.
You can refer to the players as player 1, player 2, or P1, P2, etc...
At the time of the arrest, were any players on probation or parole?

You do that, we might be able to tell you how this could shake out, and what actions are still available to you.

Moose and Java know many things.
Absorb their wisdom.
They'll school you.

Okay, read this article. It lays out the prelim in California.
By the way, these guys are well respected among the defense bar.

http://www.shouselaw.com/preliminary-hearing.html
 
Last edited:
The reports are 5 amended police reports. And our Attorney just laughs when handed us a copy. I'm just speaking out loud here and maybe frowned upon, but I must ask. Would it be possible that my attorney made some kind of deal with these guys (DA, police) Our attorney when first meeting him was bragging about this big party he threw for all the judges and people within the system. I can't tell you why but I have had this uneasy feeling about him for some time. I can't brush it off.
 
Army Judge. If you were standing in front of me I would plant the biggest kiss on you. I God, questions asked. Thank you.
 
boysinivy said:
The reports are 5 amended police reports. And our Attorney just laughs when handed us a copy. I'm just speaking out loud here and maybe frowned upon, but I must ask. Would it be possible that my attorney made some kind of deal with these guys (DA, police) Our attorney when first meeting him was bragging about this big party he threw for all the judges and people within the system. I can't tell you why but I have had this uneasy feeling about him for some time. I can't brush it off.
Click to expand...
Anyone is capable of lying or making a deal. However, for him to sell his clients down the river with the complicity of the DA and the police would require a rather broad conspiracy. Conspiracies are difficult to keep secret, and keeping one with three or more people of diverse backgrounds is even tougher as they would all have to have a corrupted sense of ethical responsibility. Although, the police do not deal with defense attorneys, so the chances of him making any kind of a "deal" with the cops is slim to none. And I am still scratching my head at this whole amended report idea ... something is off about that one.

A connected attorney is likely to socialize with other attorneys and judges. In some communities it is unavoidable. Those connections can also benefit their clients as it might give them access and influence where they might otherwise have no hope to sell a deal or idea.

Ultimately, if you do not like or trust your attorney, you need your own. As has been mentioned a couple of times, each of you really needs your own attorneys as your interests are NOT all the same. Each of you has their own needs from this and each of you may have their own reasons to seek a plea deal and even roll over on the others. Certainly you can always refuse to do so, but, if a guy has the option of diversion if he pleads to possession and points the sales finger at someone else, he might have no real incentive to hold out and risk suffering prison time for a sales charge he was not involved in. It's very likely that at least one of your cohorts will not be willing to suffer a stiffer penalty just for solidarity, ergo, he (maybe it's you) might need his or her own attorney in order to seek the best option for their particular circumstance.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

Get a free case review from a lawyer
Back
Top