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17 1/2 year old wants to reduce summer visitation
- Thread Starter scarletrose
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Let's chill out - we're here to help each other and try to provide constructive advice. Every situation is complicated and, quite frankly, I have no idea what all the particulars are that could have caused such a rift between mother and son so that I can make my own judgment calls as to who may be justified as to their feelings.
Regarding the father's discussion with his son, I'm taking it at face value. While many times there are parents who manipulate children, I'm not sure this is one of them and have no indication to believe it's any more than a question of "what do we do?" For all we know the son feels more inclined to be with a girlfriend than a mother who, e.g. abandoned him, left Dad to be with another man, etc. I have no idea so I assume it is as stated. At the same time, I'm not sure what Dad means by his mother is "manipulating" him. Two weeks a year when the court orders five - and she can't even get that much - is that manipulation?
From what I see, this is a typical issue with children/teenagers and Dad is in a common predicament. Going back to court is always one option but I'm not sure even Dad thinks that this is really an option and it's more along the lines of what to do with his son - who is almost 18 and seems adamant about not going. Sure he can be compelled to go but what if he leaves on his own to be with a girlfriend?
I'm not sure there is a legal answer that will be satisfactory. Perhaps the answer is in compromise - although at this point it seems that it could be moot too. I would say that instead of 5 weeks during the summer that weekends or holiday weekends could be an alternative to a long summer stretch. How would any of us feel if we were taken away from that? Yes, I know about parents, etc., but we're also no longer 17.
In short, there is no easy answer. This is a problem with legal answers that still requires a practical solution. That said, I'm hoping we can keep our own house civil!!
scarletrose
New Member
I originally came here to get opinions on any available options regarding an imminent "what if" situation – that thankfully never came to pass. I never expected that my situation would get so distorted. Thanks to those who helped put an end to the personal attacks made on me and my son based on erroneous assumptions. Thanks especially to thelawprofessor.
Now that the storm appears to have died down, and people have been encouraged to help each other – I wanted to clarify some information for those that are interested:
Mother wanted to visit with son for 21 days. Son wanted to visit with mother for 16 days. Mother and Son negotiate. End Result: Visit will last 18 days.
It was never that he didn't want to go at all, he just didn't want to go for so long – when he has so many other "things" going on in his life that are important to his future including:
Community Service (40 hours required for graduation), Athletic Camps (he is being actively recruited by colleges who want to see him play), taking a SAT prep class, completing drivers ed classes/ driving time so that he can (finally) get his license. Estimated time commitment: 42 days
Son has approx 77 days of summer vacation. If you subtract the 42 days of essential commitments, 18 days of vacation time with mother, 7 days of vacation with our family – that leaves this young man with 10 days off – to sleep in, sit on the couch, read a good book, spend time with his friends, go to the beach – and yes – spend time with his girlfriend too. Ten days to do with as he pleases. This is not an unreasonable request – so yes I do feel, that at the age of 17 ½ - if he wants to slightly reduce his time with his mother – he should be able to.
In terms of what I actually said to my son – I never said that he didn't have to go. The only thing I told him was this: "if you don't want to spend the whole time there – you will have to work it out with your mother. I cannot and will not get involved in that conversation." End of discussion. They negotiated an agreement with both of them giving in a little. End of story.
What I meant by manipulation: It was not that she wanted 3 weeks of vacation – it was what she was saying to my son that he (and I) considered manipulative. What she said included: "You owe me", "I gave birth to you – you WILL do as I say", "You are a mean and selfish child", "How can you do this to me, after everything I've given up for you", "I will buy you this, and I will take you to do that."; "I don't care what you having going on or what you want – I am in control", etc etc etc. Half the time she was crying – and then mid sentence – the tears would stop and she would say brightly as sunshine "But I loooove you soooo much. You knoooow that I would do anything in the world for you. You do know that, right?"
HE felt that she was trying to manipulate him with her words and false tears – that she wasn't listening to him and didn't care about him and his life. He was very angry with her because of this. (Despite my own anger at what she had said to this young man – and I was very angry) – I encouraged him to move past it and continue to try to work things out. Which he did. I give him a lot of credit for being able to do that – because it wasn't easy for him.
Final Note: There is a downside to this situation and that is that my son has lost almost all respect for his mother and really doesn't like who she is very much at all. The things she said to him, the lies she told him, the manner in which she spoke to him and the lack of respect she showed to him– have deeply and profoundly affected the way that he feels about her (and not in a good way).
Now that the storm appears to have died down, and people have been encouraged to help each other – I wanted to clarify some information for those that are interested:
Mother wanted to visit with son for 21 days. Son wanted to visit with mother for 16 days. Mother and Son negotiate. End Result: Visit will last 18 days.
It was never that he didn't want to go at all, he just didn't want to go for so long – when he has so many other "things" going on in his life that are important to his future including:
Community Service (40 hours required for graduation), Athletic Camps (he is being actively recruited by colleges who want to see him play), taking a SAT prep class, completing drivers ed classes/ driving time so that he can (finally) get his license. Estimated time commitment: 42 days
Son has approx 77 days of summer vacation. If you subtract the 42 days of essential commitments, 18 days of vacation time with mother, 7 days of vacation with our family – that leaves this young man with 10 days off – to sleep in, sit on the couch, read a good book, spend time with his friends, go to the beach – and yes – spend time with his girlfriend too. Ten days to do with as he pleases. This is not an unreasonable request – so yes I do feel, that at the age of 17 ½ - if he wants to slightly reduce his time with his mother – he should be able to.
In terms of what I actually said to my son – I never said that he didn't have to go. The only thing I told him was this: "if you don't want to spend the whole time there – you will have to work it out with your mother. I cannot and will not get involved in that conversation." End of discussion. They negotiated an agreement with both of them giving in a little. End of story.
What I meant by manipulation: It was not that she wanted 3 weeks of vacation – it was what she was saying to my son that he (and I) considered manipulative. What she said included: "You owe me", "I gave birth to you – you WILL do as I say", "You are a mean and selfish child", "How can you do this to me, after everything I've given up for you", "I will buy you this, and I will take you to do that."; "I don't care what you having going on or what you want – I am in control", etc etc etc. Half the time she was crying – and then mid sentence – the tears would stop and she would say brightly as sunshine "But I loooove you soooo much. You knoooow that I would do anything in the world for you. You do know that, right?"
HE felt that she was trying to manipulate him with her words and false tears – that she wasn't listening to him and didn't care about him and his life. He was very angry with her because of this. (Despite my own anger at what she had said to this young man – and I was very angry) – I encouraged him to move past it and continue to try to work things out. Which he did. I give him a lot of credit for being able to do that – because it wasn't easy for him.
Final Note: There is a downside to this situation and that is that my son has lost almost all respect for his mother and really doesn't like who she is very much at all. The things she said to him, the lies she told him, the manner in which she spoke to him and the lack of respect she showed to him– have deeply and profoundly affected the way that he feels about her (and not in a good way).
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