Timeclock rounding, is this legal?

[WallyWest]

I'm in PA, but I believe the applicable laws are federal anyway.

So I'm an hourly, non-exempt employee. Have worked at this company for a little over a year. At first no problem, because my clock in and out times were pretty much 40 hours a week. Then I got a promotion and my new position frequently had overtime. Not scheduled, but management was aware and due to the nature of the job we stayed until we were finished instead of just clocking out at 5 like most others.

I recently discovered that I'm being shorted on my paychecks. The company uses an app that gives us access to all this stuff so it's easy to compare actual time clock records to my paycheck. And consistently over the last year each pay is about an hour short. It's not exactly an hour, and it varies, but let's say the total hours reported on the time clock for two weeks is 98.675. My paycheck would show 97.583. Something like that.

I emailed HR about this. The response was, if you clock in a few minutes before your shift, and maybe you clock out at 5:03 or whatever, well those are not counted. You'll only be paid for your scheduled shift. First I've heard of this. I am aware of a policy that says we can't clock in more than 15 minutes prior to our shift start, but that's it.

Now the problem is this answer doesn't work. If I apply that standard to any given pay period then the total hours should be some nice round number, and should correspond exactly to my schedule. But it doesn't. The actual pay is higher than that, just about an hour short of the actual time clock records.

My understanding of time clock rounding is that it should be neutral over the long term. You may have a little rounded off one time, but gain a bit the next, and over a long enough period of time you'll come real close to breaking even. Yeah, well I'm losing time each and every check. And as far as I know if they are allowing me to punch in up to 15 minutes early, and out whenever I'm done and my manager says go home, then I should be paid for all the time showing on the time clock.

Oh, and they did mention about how you could stay late if the manager approves it. Well, right next to each and every day in the app there's a little line that says "manager approved this shift". Furthermore, I have never been told I was staying too late, or needed to punch out at a certain time.

So, legally, do they have a leg to stand on with their policy given that I can prove everything I've said here? I took screenshots of all my pay statements and time clock records. I should add, this is not an overtime issue. I'm getting paid overtime, we even have scheduled overtime right now. The issue is they're using the policy of "you only get paid for what you're scheduled to work" to try and justify shaving about 10 minutes a day off my time. And the math doesn't work.

 

[army judge]

The issue is they're using the policy of "you only get paid for what you're scheduled to work" to try and justify shaving about 10 minutes a day off my time. And the math doesn't work.

Most employees wouldn't CHOOSE the events you've described above to potentially become a martyr.

However, you might feel it is an event worth your employment status.

As my grandfather was fond of saying, "Son, its not worth doing, only to lose. In other words, don't raise a ruckus over pennies, which'll likely cost you dollars."

 

[cbg]

Time clock rounding is legal, in up to the nearest 15 minute increment, as long as it is even handed and practiced regardless of who it benefits.

If you are rounded forward to 8:00 when you come in at 7:53, that's okay as long as when you come in at 8:07 you are rounded back to 8;00. The overall increments cannot be more than 15 minutes and the rounding cannot always be in the employer's favor.

 

[adjusterjack]

And the math doesn't work.

How much, in actual dollars, has this cost you so far?

 

[hrforme]

'Employee time from 1 to 7 minutes may be rounded down, and thus not counted as hours worked, but employee time from 8 to 14 minutes must be rounded up and counted as a quarter hour of work time. See (FLSA) Regulations 29 CFR 785.48(b)."

 

[WallyWest]

How much, in actual dollars, has this cost you so far?

Haven't calculated it out totally, but a couple thousand.

Time clock rounding is legal, in up to the nearest 15 minute increment, as long as it is even handed and practiced regardless of who it benefits.

If you are rounded forward to 8:00 when you come in at 7:53, that's okay as long as when you come in at 8:07 you are rounded back to 8;00. The overall increments cannot be more than 15 minutes and the rounding cannot always be in the employer's favor.

Yeah, that's definitely not what they're doing.

Their stated policy would have me at an even 8 or 9 hours a day, depending on the schedule. But I see fractions of an hour on my check, which seems to indicate they pay by the actual time. Except they don't. And the fractions I see are not 1/4 hour, it's down to the minute.

The other side of the policy is that if you're so much as a single minute late punching in, or early punching out, you get a quarter point. The point system is their way of doing writeups. It's not just attendance that you get points for, but that's the most common way. If I were to punch in at 8:02, for example, that time would not be rounded in my favor, and on top of that I would be punished. Once you hit 6 points, you're fired.

The rounding that's taking place doesn't seem to correspond to any real standard, it's just a somewhat random reduction in the time reported from the time clock. And it's always in their favor.

 

[adjusterjack]

Haven't calculated it out totally, but a couple thousand.

For that kind of money, for which you have documentation, have you brought this to the attention of your employer?

If not, why not?

If you are concerned about retaliation then you can just make a wage claim with the PA Dept of Labor and seek employment elsewhere.

Wage Complaint Form (pa.gov)

 

[WallyWest]

For that kind of money, for which you have documentation, have you brought this to the attention of your employer?

If not, why not?

If you are concerned about retaliation then you can just make a wage claim with the PA Dept of Labor and seek employment elsewhere.

Wage Complaint Form (pa.gov)

As I said in the first post, I emailed HR about it. Their response was basically, that's our policy. Which was news to me, and once you look at the math it doesn't even explain what I'm seeing.

 

[hrforme]

Scheduled time is different than paid work time. Employers aren't required to pay any scheduled time that you work, except in very few situations (state reporting pay or minimum shift pay if the state even has something like that).

I doubt they round unless it's behind the scenes so what you see on a timecard is actual but what is calculated is rounded. One would have to analyze a lot of data to see exactly what they might be doing.

Attendance points are totally outside of pay issues. That's company policy and yes they can punish or discipline for not being on time or leaving early unless you have protected time under FMLA or ADA reasonable accommodations.

In the end I doubt the rounding is a random reduction, but that you just don't understand the calculation (not meaning that in a snarky way at all)....just that I have employees think something is so wrong when in reality they just don't understand the calculation.

 

[Zigner]

Maybe the clock/system is counting to the second. That might help explain the odd total times showing.

 

[adjusterjack]

As I said in the first post, I emailed HR about it. Their response was basically, that's our policy. Which was news to me, and once you look at the math it doesn't even explain what I'm seeing.

If policy violated the law, the state will show them where to put their policy.

 

[cbg]

At this point, I agree with calling the PA DLI. PA is not fast, but they are thorough - I've dealt with them a couple of times. If what is being done violates the pay laws, PA will let the employer know it, without letting them know who complained. If the policy is legal, the DLI will explain it to you. Just don't expect it to be quick - PA is good but they're not Speedy Gonzales.

And while it shouldn't come back on you, if by chance it does, the PA DLI will deal with that too.

 

[WallyWest]

In the end I doubt the rounding is a random reduction, but that you just don't understand the calculation (not meaning that in a snarky way at all)....just that I have employees think something is so wrong when in reality they just don't understand the calculation.

That could be, but if we are playing that game I want to know the rules so I can play to win. So far what I've got by way of explanation is vague and doesn't make sense. That makes me suspicious that the rounding method they're using is not entirely legal.

I'm going give them one more chance to explain it, but seems as if I'll likely end up reporting it to the DLI and let them take it from there. I've been trying to reverse engineer the rounding rules, and making some pretty big assumptions I've come reasonably close to the hours reported on my paycheck. I suspect they are right on the line between probably legal and definitely not legal. Where yeah, I might have a case, but it's far from a slam dunk and they're banking on none of their employees being willing to roll the dice in court on it. A slimy way to do business, IMO, but one that clearly works.

I'm not worried about being fired, frankly that would be fine by me at this point for a variety of reasons. But it won't happen. Even though PA is an at will state the place I work for HATES unemployment claims. So they never lay off people for no reason, they always build a rock solid case for why they're being fired first. Hell, someone threatened one of my coworkers with a gun on company property, with witnesses, and they only suspended them for three days. Cops were involved later, but without video evidence (which the company has, but they claim it got lost) they won't do anything.

Anyway, my response at this point is going to be one of malicious compliance. I will clock in and out, exactly at the time I'm scheduled for. I won't be staying late any more. Right now we're kind of slow so they won't even notice. That will change, and when they try to make an issue of it I'll just show them the email from HR that clearly says I won't be paid beyond my schedule. If they want me to stay late I need assurance, in writing from HR, that I will be paid for ALL of the extra time.