Assault & Battery How can a bouncer handle a patron trying to leave a bar with an open drink?

Solomon

Solomon

New Member
Jurisdiction
Michigan
Basically I have been having trouble finding any information on what a bouncer is legally allowed to do when a patron tries to leave with an open drink in their hand. Should the bouncer:

* Interpose to prevent them from leaving; is this legally allowed / okay?
* Yank the drink from the patron's hand forcibly; is that legally allowed / okay?
* Let the patron go and call the police; doesn't this cause trouble for the bar on account of repeated calls like this leading to loss of liquor license?

What is the right way to handle this? Something that protects the bouncer legally as well as doesn't impinge on the patrons rights. Any direct information, ideas, links, hints, etc., are welcome.

Thanks in advance.
 
Solomon said:
Basically I have been having trouble finding any information on what a bouncer is legally allowed to do when a patron tries to leave with an open drink in their hand. Should the bouncer:

* Interpose to prevent them from leaving; is this legally allowed / okay?
* Yank the drink from the patron's hand forcibly; is that legally allowed / okay?
* Let the patron go and call the police; doesn't this cause trouble for the bar on account of repeated calls like this leading to loss of liquor license?

What is the right way to handle this? Something that protects the bouncer legally as well as doesn't impinge on the patrons rights. Any direct information, ideas, links, hints, etc., are welcome.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


Most riverboat casinos address this dilemma by placing signs and receptacles at the exits warning patrons about state liquor laws and asking the patrons to dispose their cups before exiting the premises.

The last thing you want to do is go hands on because a patron refused.

It's better to note the person's name, and advise them of the risks of carrying liquor in open containers.

One very clever client of mine gives patrons a "have one on the house" card as the customer is saying goodnight.

That place has happy customers, employees, police officers, and TABC agents.

Again, going hands on over open containers is stupid, and bad for business.
 
For a bit more clarification...

1. Are the bouncers allowed to interpose in the doorway preventing someone from leaving while not engaging physically? Basically just stand in the doorway.

2. Does the bar really get in trouble with open container walkouts? And potentially lose their license? I have been told this is a problem.

Regarding what @army judge said...
One very clever client of mine gives patrons a "have one on the house" card as the customer is saying goodnight.
Click to expand...

What do they do exactly? Basically say, leave the drink now and here is a card for a free drink next time? Hmm that is a good idea.
 
Around here, Las Vegas, they have a bus pan (or a table) at the door and they insist that you leave it there. No drink tickets are awarded for compliance, but that's a great idea...I just would never expect that here in Vegas where all they care about is money from the revolving door of nonstop tourist action. I've never seen a bouncer get physical over this, other than blocking exit with their body or arm.

It would be interesting to see how this plays out (refusing to comply with leaving the drink at the door) in a city such as Vegas where many times you are exiting their facility into an area or street that allows open containers with your overpriced drink you paid them money for.
 
Solomon said:
Regarding what @army judge said...


What do they do exactly? Basically say, leave the drink now and here is a card for a free drink next time? Hmm that is a good idea.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's EXACTLY what they do with great success, I might add.

In Texas, if the establishment posts signage stating the law, or politely asks the patron to comply; the law is satisfied.

As Adjusterjack said, it's ultimately the patron's problem.
 
I am open to more information and such.

What bars seem to think
The bars worry that while the problem is the patron's, if cops are called too many times on people leaving their establishment with drinks in hand they will lose their license. That is where it becomes tricky.

What a bouncer seems to be limited to
Sounding like that the best a bouncer is allowed to do is block the exit but that is likely not effective as it prevents all other patrons as well. :/ Wonder what the Michigan law is regarding this.

Ergo
So basically barring the way is okay as it is not initiating violence. If the patron then engages in something then the bouncer has self-defense on his/her side. Okay that sort of makes sense.

As a side thought... Hmmm another option may be to take a picture and say, if you leave with this, your photo will wind up in our do not serve list for the future. Just a thought.

Thanks for the responses so far. Hoping someone that is familiar with Michigan law also chimes in for more details. :)
 
Even police powers are lowered when the issue appears to be the lowest level ordinance violation.


OPEN CONTAINER: EXPLAINED BY A MI ATTORNEY:

Walking with Open Container in Michigan - DUI Attorney in Grand Rapids MI | 616-541-6134 | Free Consultation


Michigan Appelate Court says reserve police officer isn't a peace officer under Michigan law.

He or she, when acting under the authority of a sworn police officer would be a LEO.

MY COMMENT: It is unwise for a bouncer to believe he or she is conferred any law enforcement powers. In Michigan, agents of merchants, do have such limited authority under law to detain suspected thieves.


FindLaw's Court of Appeals of Michigan case and opinions.

VICARIOUS LIABILITY

MASTER-SERVANT DOCTRINE





Bouncer / Security Liability


Nightclub Security, Bouncers, Doormen Need Training, security consultant, Chris McGoey, nightclub security expert


https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dleg/Club_Licensee_Info_272130_7.pdf
 
Thanks.

My legal-search-fu is very much lacking though thelearning process has begun. Enlightening links; perusing them now. Will come back with questions if I still have any. Either way though, thank you very much. :)
 
ARREST POWERS IN MICHIGAN, are limited, much like TEXAS.

THE CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE (EXCERPT)
Act 175 of 1927


764.16 Arrest by private person; situations.
Sec. 16.

A private person may make an arrest—in the following situations:

(a) For a felony committed in the private person's presence.

(b) If the person to be arrested has committed a felony although not in the private person's presence.

(c) If the private person is summoned by a peace officer to assist the officer in making an arrest.

(d) If the private person is a merchant, an agent of a merchant, an employee of a merchant, or an independent contractor providing security for a merchant of a store and has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be arrested has violated section 356c or 356d of the Michigan penal code, Act No. 328 of the Public Acts of 1931, being sections 750.356c and 750.356d of the Michigan Compiled Laws, in that store, regardless of whether the violation was committed in the presence of the private person.
 
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dleg/Club_Licensee_Info_272130_7.pdf
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Reading through this and some related laws, it is starting to look like (and yes I don't understand laws so take it for what its worth) that in Michigan, the licensee is responsible for preventing people leaving with open containers. Now I gather this doesn't mean violence but I do think this means asking them to not do this nicely and not so nicely, bribing with free drink cards, barring the way out until they comply, heck holding a drain bucket in front of them, or call the cops before the person leaves possibly (still not clear if the last one is considered part of a licensee's expected responses or see as failure to enforce).

Either way, bouncers according to attorneys seems like aren't allowed to touch you but guiding your out with hand on the back and such is okay. But if you are being violent then can respond as such. But if they are not trained they can open things up for liability though then that is another can of worms.

Lastly it seems like, bouncers can corroborate amongst themselves so it does make things harder to prove so security cameras, other patrons, and your own recording device is necessary I think. On the other hand, not being a jackass is also a recommended approach. :)

Thanks for helping me how someone as a bouncer should handle matters and also how one should be treated by a bouncer. should be handled as a result. More one knows and the like.

Thanks again folks. :) Major thanks for @army judge :D
 
You're welcome, Solomon.
You represent one of the wisest Kings ever to reign over the Hebrews.
It's far better to use the most powerful organ in your body, your brain.
I always say, avoid all contact.
Talking a person down is much easier than going hands on.
I spent the first five years of my army career as a ranger, with four of those years in 'Nam.

An old SFC took me under his wing.
The things he taught me, I still employ today.
The best thing he ever taught me was how to talk to people, subordinates, superiors, non-combatants, and enemy combatants.
SITUATIONAL AWARENESS can't be taught, it can be slowly acquired.
 
army judge said:
You're welcome, Solomon.
You represent one of the wisest Kings ever to reign over the Hebrews.
It's far better to use the most powerful organ in your body, your brain.
I always say, avoid all contact.
Talking a person down is much easier than going hands on.
I spent the first five years of my army career as a ranger, with four of those years in 'Nam.

An old SFC took me under his wing.
The things he taught me, I still employ today.
The best thing he ever taught me was how to talk to people, subordinates, superiors, non-combatants, and enemy combatants.
SITUATIONAL AWARENESS can't be taught, it can be slowly acquired.
Click to expand...
I completely agree.

Best conflicts are won by not being in one. Challenging sometimes when one is under verbal fire but definitely worth the time to hone that skill.

This advice is probably more valuable than the information you provided prior (which was very useful actually). Thanks.
 

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