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Would how I was treated be considered illegal? Sex Crimes, Sex Offenders

Discussion in 'Criminal Charges' started by Virginia May, May 15, 2020.

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  1. Virginia May

    Virginia May Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Jurisdiction:
    California
    Before I start, I should mention some things:
    - This is all online
    - The "pedo" is in the same state as me
    - We have a 10+ year age gap

    I'll give him a placeholder name like James.

    So it all started when I was around 12; he was in his 20s
    I don't remember how the joking started, but we didn't know each other well and were barely becoming friends. I think the joke stemmed from someone else making it and James embracing it.
    I went along with it, and I didn't really know better. We would flirt with each other often and it would increasingly get worse and worse as time went on.
    When I say it was bad, I mean he and I would private message each other often just to flirt and he'd "joke" about "raping" me and "wanting to put me in his basement" and "use me as a sex object". There was a lot more to it but that was what we joked about the most. Stuff like that.
    He always passed it off as a joke though and said he'd never want to do that unless I was of age. He did jokingly imply that he'd be willing to meet me and have sex once I'm 18 if I'd be down though but I'm not sure if that's relevant or not. Regardless, it didn't stop him from flirting with me regularly.
    I used to have a crush on him, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it at the time. He reassured me countless times that it was okay, legal, and just a joke, and he still does that to this day.
    Around the time I turned 13, the jokes started becoming increasingly uncomfortable as I lost interest in him, however, that wouldn't stop him, if anything, it encouraged him.
    Finally, it got to a point where I'd tell him to stop, and he would, but also wouldn't take my feelings seriously at all. He'd act very passive-aggressive and blame my feelings on puberty or something like that. He'd also tell me it's my fault and I put it on myself for originally encouraging it, and for the longest time, I believed him, and finally felt guilty enough to keep letting him and others continue those jokes.
    It was until recently when he finally stopped after a friend of mine called him out. He was more passive-aggressive than ever though and it took me screaming at him about it to treat me normally again.

    I feel like it's also important to mention, he flirted with my underage friends too, but not nearly as much. Especially one friend in particular who was 15 at the time. She didn't like the jokes at all but never encouraged him to stop or anything. He was a lot more forceful and desperate to flirt with her. However, since she barely played along, it didn't last.

    I wanted to ask
    is any of this illegal?
    I can elaborate on anything else if you need me to, but I've been wondering if anything he's done to me is illegal or not and if it really is my fault.
     
  2. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    No, this is not legal. How old are you now? Have you turned in the "conversation(s) to the police?
     
  3. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Illegal or not, I need to say very clearly: This was/is not your "fault" by any means. Don't blame yourself for anything this scum has said/done to you. He is a sorry excuse for a human being.
     
  4. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with the previous answer you received that says it is clearly illegal. I see nothing in your general description of what occurred that is illegal. As a general rule simply TALKING ABOUT sex with a minor is not a crime. It may be creepy and immoral but not illegal.

    Actually having sex with a minor, soliciting a minor for sex, being involved in child pornography, engaging a minor for prostitution, etc., are all illegal.

    But just sex talk with a minor is not itself a crime.

    However, I don't have the details of the entire history you had with the guy to know if there was anything illegal that occurred. All I have is the overview you provided. You are always free to go to the police and/or prosecutor and provide the full details and they can decide if there is anything to pursue.
     
  5. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    It might be a stretch but the rape and lock in the basement stuff might rise to

    422 PC states that "any person who willfully threatens to commit a crime which will result in death or great bodily injury to another person, with the specific intent that the statement, made verbally, in writing, or by means of an electronic communication device, is to be taken as a threat, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out, which, on its face and under the circumstances in which it is made, is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to convey to the person threatened, a gravity of purpose and an immediate prospect of execution of the threat, and thereby causes that person reasonably to be in sustained fear for his or her own safety or for his or her immediate family's safety, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison.
     
  6. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    The scum is encouraging this girl to perform sexual acts, and then trying to protect his acts by saying "I'm just joking". It doesn't (shouldn't) fool anyone.
     
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  7. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    If it's clear that it was just talk and the person receiving the message does not perceive it as a threat then that statute is not violated. The OP seems to indicate that she did not perceive the talk to be a threat that he was going to actually do those things. Rather, it sounds like they both took it to be fantasy. And that's not illegal.
     
  8. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    We don't know exactly what was said. Nothing the OP stated indicates that the guy ever asked her to perform any sexual acts. If he did, that solicitation would be a crime. Again, just chatting about sex itself is not a crime. I get that a lot of people are repulsed by such talk with minors and think it should be illegal, but as you know, what people think should be illegal and what actually is illegal are two different things.
     
  9. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    I was basing my statement on this:

    ...as well as on the fact that the OP states that she reciprocated.

    I'm not going to ask the OP to elaborate, as I don't feel it's appropriate or necessary.
     
  10. Virginia May

    Virginia May Law Topic Starter New Member

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  11. Virginia May

    Virginia May Law Topic Starter New Member

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    My bad, I sent that on accident.
    Anyways, thank you for all the replies.
    I kind of had an idea that the conversations themselves were not illegal but I really needed to make sure.

    Although, here's one thing I didn't hear brought up. My friend suggested that what he did could also be considered grooming.

    Building up my trust for something to come later.
    He definetely did build my trust up. He called me one of his closest friends and tried talking to me often. I also remember him letting me get away with tons of stuff. He told me very personal things, about him and other people and the stuff he worked on. And he gave me my own role in his Discord server high above all the admins so they couldn't do anything to me. Didn't really care how I used it as long as it didn't abuse it in a harmful way.
    It wasn't until the joking stopped that he stopped letting me do all those things and would get pissy at me if I did. He told me I'm not special anymore lol.
    Oh, and I also expressed an interest in game development, to which he enthusiastically said he'd be willing to fund my college courses if I wanted to work for the company he planned on making, but I had to be fully committed and take it seriously, so I said no.
    Don't forget he did "jokingly" imply he wanted to actually have sex with me once I was 18 too, which wouldn't be farfetched because he's met up with girls to have sex before.
    I'm not sure if any of this is relevant but I thought I'd give it a try.
     
  12. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    How old are you? When was the last time you had contact with him?
     
  13. Virginia May

    Virginia May Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I'm 14 and we still have completely contact
     
  14. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    It would be necessary to review the details of the total course of conduct to see if grooming might be at work. Grooming is kind of an indefinite concept though; it's not always easy to determine if that might be going on. Even if it is, though, grooming by itself does not appear to be a crime in California. From what I see of the case law the issue of grooming mostly comes up in relation to helping to prove some other sexual act occurred, in sentencing hearings after conviction on some sex offense, or in child custody cases.

    Well, wanting to have sex with you AFTER you hit age 18 isn't illegal, nor would it be illegal for him to have sex with you after you turn 18, so long as you consented, of course.
     
  15. Virginia May

    Virginia May Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Ah, I see. So not under any circumstance is it illegal, but just on the very borderline. That sucks because I don't want any other girl my age to go through this. He can target other people too.

    By the way, the reason I mentioned him wanting to have sex after 18 was because I heard that grooming you up to have sex after 18 is illegal, however when I put more thought into it, all you can do is make assumptions because we have no concrete proof that he intended on grooming in the first place anyway.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  16. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    Assuming you are still a minor, you should disclose all of this to your parents, a school counselor, or police immediately. If you do not do so you may allow for this person to victimize someone else.

    Possible California offenses:
    PC 272- Contributing to delinquency of a minor.
    PC 288.2- Harmful matter
    PC 288.3- Contact minor for sex
    PC 288.4- Arrange meeting
    PC 311.2(d)- Offer obscene matter
    PC 647.6- Annoy/harass child.


    PC 422- Criminal threats and PC 646.9- Stalking. Thesee would not apply. The statements were apparently not made or received as threats and there was no imminent fear they would be carried out.
     
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  17. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    What you describe here is well over the line. If what you say can be backed up with evidence it would be quite easy to obtain a warrant for one or more of the crimes I listed above.
    I bet there are plenty of incriminating details you have not provided in your brief explanation here of two years worth of contract worrth this person.
     
  18. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    It might be in your best interest to talk about the series of events with mother, father, grandmother, grandfather, aunt, uncle, or your legal guardian.

    There are things best not recited here in public.

    Your parents or legal guardian need to know what has been happening.

    You also need to understand that these types of contacts MIGHT get you into some very troublesome, dangerous situations.

    I hope you get this sorted and realize that your face could have ended up on a milk carton, had you ever met with the savage who was grooming you to be used for his pleasure.

    There are evil creeps in this world who would eagerly cut your throat, rip out your heart, and eat it as easily as telling you hello.
     
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  19. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with some of those based on the information we have here. Let's look at each one in turn.

    PC 272 — contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Paragraph (a)(1) deals with those who encourage a minor to act in a way that either lands the minor in a juvenile delinquency hearing, to disobey the reasonable orders or direction of the minor's parents, encourages the minor to be truant from school, or encourages the minor to break the law. None of those things are present in what the OP describes. Paragraph (a)(2) is directed to parents. Paragraph (b)(1) requires attempting to lure the minor away from her parents, which again is not described in the info the OP provided. So I'm not seeing enough here to indicate enough for probable cause to charge this crime.

    PC 288.2 — Harmful matter. That might be a possibility, but we would need to know more about the messages to know if they constitute "harmful matter".

    PC 288.3 — Contacting a minor for sex. That requires communication with the a minor for the purpose of committing one of the listed offenses. Those offenses fall in the categories of rape, causing great bodily harm or death, sodomy, oral sex, lewd or lascivious acts, sexual penetration by force or threat, child pornography related offenses, and distribution of harmful matter. Apart from an intent to distribute harmful matter, the information we have doesn't indicate the guy has made contact with the purpose to engage in one of those other offenses with the OP. And as far as distribution of harmful matter goes, if that applied they'd likely just charge the 288.2 instead.

    PC 288.4 — Arranging a meeting with a minor for sexual purposes. Nothing so far indicates that the guy set up any meeting with the OP at all, let alone for the purposes described in the statute.

    PC 311.2(d) — Offer obscene matter. That is part of the state's child pornography law, and it requires distributing material that "depicts a person under the age of 18 years personally engaging in or personally simulating sexual conduct". There is no information in the info provided by the OP that the guy sent her images depicting child porn.

    PC 647.6 — Annoy a child. That statute is very vague, stating only that it is a crime to annoy or molest a person under age 18. That vagueness is a potential problem. The courts have tried to give more meat to it stating that:

    The words “annoy” and “molest” are synonymous and “refer to conduct designed ‘to disturb or irritate, esp[ecially] by continued or repeated acts' or ‘to offend’ [citation]; and as used in this statute, they ordinarily relate to ‘offenses against children, [with] a connotation of abnormal sexual motivation on the part of the offender.’ [Citation.] [¶] Ordinarily, the annoyance or molestation which is forbidden is ‘not concerned with the state of mind of the child’ but it is ‘the objectionable acts of defendant which constitute the offense,’ and if his conduct is ‘so lewd or obscene that the normal person would unhesitatingly be irritated by it, such conduct would “annoy or molest” within the purview of’ the statute. [Citation.]”

    In re D.G., 208 Cal. App. 4th 1562, 1571, 146 Cal. Rptr. 3d 576, 582 (2012). Again, without seeing the texts in their entirety it is not clear that the guy engaged in conduct that amounted to molestation.

    So while perhaps, with more detailed information, the crimes relating to "harmful matter" and to annoying a child might apply, I'm not seeing that the other crimes you listed would at all fit given what the OP described.

    But certainly she can take the messages to the police or prosecutor and perhaps with all the details of those texts in front of them they'll find enough to charge one or more offenses. We don't have enough details to really sort that out.


     
  20. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    Note the word "possible" that preceded the list of offenses. Obviously, they all depend on further information. My own experience with this sort of investigation leads me to make certain assumptions about the type of information likely to be obtained, if the information has been preserved.
    There is a lot more information an investigator could obtain, but based on what we have been given at least a few crimes have likely been completed.
     
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