Used car not as described in listing

N

nopeda

New Member
Jurisdiction
Maine
Hello law people. In a post at:

Log into Facebook

a used car dealer posted to Facebook Marketplace :

"2010 Subaru Forester AWD 4 CYL Autiomatic POwer windows and Locks Very Nice Car absolutely No Rust and Runs Like New 180K and would never Know It... New Inspection Sticker 100% Warranty 30 Day PLate 6900.00 Gastkets all done Timimg was done and water pump all with in a few weeks. Call anytime"

I bought the vehicle because of the work which supposedly had been done but it turned out it had not been done. I had to pay to have it done because a mechanic and a state inspector both said the head gaskets are in bad shape and need to be replaced before it does real damage to the engine. It cost $1900 to get done what the Marketplace listing claimed had already been done. The post has been removed. The quote above was copied directly from it. Is it possible to prove that it was ever on Facebook Marketplace by some sort of archive or seller history or anything?

Advice someone provided was to file a complaint with my local small claims court for: Breach of Contract - Consumer Fraud - False Advertising and that it's only one page and I don't have to be a lawyer to do it. Also when it goes to court have the mechanic who did the job testify that the work had not been done. Hopefully he would do that because he said the head gaskets, timing belt and water pump were all the originals still on the motor never been changed.

Does all that sound right? The person who drove me to get the vehicle remembers me discussing with the dealer about the head gaskets, timing belt and water pump having been changed and the dealer saying they had all been done recently. The person said he will go to court and testify to it. Should that be enough?

Thank you for any advice about this!!

David
Maine, USA
 
Sorry, $1900 was your tuition for a life lesson from the school of hard knocks. Car dealers are liars and thieves. Never believe anything they say unless you get it in writing. You should have taken a screen shot of the ad when you had the chance.

Did you get that 30 day warranty in writing? I'm guessing not.

Has it been more than 30 days since you bought the car?

If yes, and you take the dealer to court and your witness testifies to the conversation, the dealer will either lie, and have other liars to back him up, or he will admit to the 30 day warranty and say it's been more than 30 days.

Anyway, small claims court is cheap and informal so you don't have much to lose.
 
adjusterjack said:
Should have read the document referred to at that link.

https://www.maine.gov/tools/whatsnew/attach.php?id=27927&an=1

"An engine is not a State inspection item."

However, OP is welcome to make a complaint with the Attorney General and submit affidavits from his witnesses in the hope that the AG will do something about it.
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I did - but when I posted that I had the impression that the car didn't pass inspection. Upon rereading, I'm not so sure...
 
nopeda said:
I bought the vehicle because of the work which supposedly had been done but it turned out it had not been done.
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Before you bought it, you had the opportunity to ask for the records to prove that the work had been done. Did you do that? If not, why not? If so, what did you receive in response?

nopeda said:
I had to pay to have it done because a mechanic and a state inspector both said the head gaskets are in bad shape and need to be replaced before it does real damage to the engine.
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Before you bought it, you had the opportunity to have the vehicle inspected by a mechanic of your choosing. Did you do that? If not, why not?

Also, after finding out that the work was needed, you contacted the seller to discuss the matter. Right? Please provide a brief description of that discussion (or those discussions).

nopeda said:
Is it possible to prove that it was ever on Facebook Marketplace by some sort of archive or seller history or anything?
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Undoubtedly.

nopeda said:
Advice someone provided was to file a complaint with my local small claims court for: Breach of Contract - Consumer Fraud - False Advertising
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Good idea (which isn't to say I think you'll win, but you have little to lose with a small claims suit).

nopeda said:
The person who drove me to get the vehicle remembers me discussing with the dealer about the head gaskets, timing belt and water pump having been changed and the dealer saying they had all been done recently. The person said he will go to court and testify to it.
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That's hearsay, and hearsay is precluded by every state's rules of evidence. However, evidentiary rules are often relaxed in small claims court. We can't possibly know for sure whether a small claims judge in ____ County, Maine would allow such evidence.

P.S. If you respond further, you should clarify whether you bought this vehicle from a dealer or through a private party sale.
 
I bought the vehicle from a dealer. I didn't think anything about having it inspected not being familiar with dealing with lying cheating people of such an extreme degree. For the price he charged for a vehicle that old with that many miles it seemed reasonable to believe the work had been done. When I pick up what I think is a gallon of milk from a 'dealer' I don't open it and sample it before paying for it, expecting there are laws in place to protect people from such horrendously dishonest misrepresentation of what they claim to be selling. The same is true of canned goods, appliances like TV's, etc... I had no idea that something as significant to a person's quality of life as a vehicle is some sort of exception and the seller can lie about it any way he wants to and it's apparently okay...no law against it. So at this point in my learnings it seems very clear why dishonest lying thieves like that business and aren't afraid to lie so blatantly.

Still, he did lie to an extremely high degree about something that has nothing to do with any warranty (he didn't warranty his description to in any way represent the actual condition of the vehicle) or even anything to do with inspection issues. He lied in his listing which I'm hoping is fraud and I know is false advertising whether that's a crime or not, and hopefully other things. It was undoubtedly a lie since the original parts were still in the vehicle when I paid to have them replaced. That seems provable beyond any argument and the fact that it has nothing to do with any sort of warranty or anything that could ever expire also seems beyond any argument.

So now the only thing that is not provable beyond argument is proof that he ever misrepresented the condition of the vehicle in the post which led me to pay so much money for a vehicle that old with that many miles on it. I still hope it's possible to access some sort of archive proving it was there. Even if not the quotes I posted were from copied from that listing. I certainly would not have paid that much money for a vehicle that old with that many miles if I didn't believe what the listing said. Also at the time of the sale when asked he himself insisted that the repairs he claimed had been made in the listing had been made and the person that drove me to get the vehicle heard him confirm it.
 
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welkin said:
Read about the Maine consumer laws when buying a used car in the link below:

https://www.maine.gov/ag/dynld/documents/clg9.pdf

I think will learn a great deal about what you can do.
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Thank you that was a great help! Of course it leads to more questions also. Would there be any value of any sort in contacting the Attorney Generals office and if so what would it be? What to ask them? Would they actually get involved or at best just give advice? Or maybe they would be like the bureau of motor vehicles and say there's nothing they can do, even though half a dozen people suggested contacting them? How to find a lawyer who knows something about this and pay for an hour of his time or something? I feel sure there are a number of lawyers I could buy time from, but how to find one who actually can give useful advice?
 
nopeda wrote: Is it possible to prove that it was ever on Facebook Marketplace by some sort of archive or seller history or anything?
zddoodah said:
Undoubtedly.
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I have tried and tried and have still found no way of proving it was ever posted to Marketplace. I feel sure the dishonest seller could get it from his own history, and feel even more sure he would be dishonest about it, remove it completely if possible, and alter what was actually written and will probably do so if it goes to court.
 
welkin said:
Read about the Maine consumer laws when buying a used car in the link below:

https://www.maine.gov/ag/dynld/documents/clg9.pdf

I think will learn a great deal about what you can do.
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Here is some text quoted from it:
"Last Revised 6.15.2022
9
CONSUMER RIGHTS WHEN YOU BUY A USED VEHICLE
. . .

§ 9. 10. Your Legal Remedies
. . .

C.
Unfair Trade Practices Act Remedies.
If you are buying the car for personal, family, or household use (not business), then under 10 M.R.S.A. § 1477 any violation of the duties described above is a per se (automatic) unfair trade practice. Under 5 M.R.S.A. § 213, you have the right to go to Small Claims Court if the damage is $4,500 or less, District Court, or Superior Court to sue for damages or restitution (your money back). The court can also order the dealer to pay your reasonable attorney fees and the cost of filing the suit.35 It can also be an Unfair Trade Practice if the dealer makes any significant oral or written (e.g., in an advertisement) misrepresentations. This is true even if the sales contract warns the buyer that the dealer is not responsible for the oral statement of its sales person and that the written contract terms are final. Why? Because an Unfair Trade Practices Act claim is not based on the written contract but rather is based on dealer deceptive practices."

Is that an acceptable way of presenting the parts of the document I feel apply to my situation? Should I copy in such a way and present it to the judge? Or copy entire pages and highlight what I feel applies? How about what to send to the dealer? Does it matter? This part seems most significant from my pov:

It can also be an Unfair Trade Practice if the dealer makes any significant oral or written (e.g., in an advertisement) misrepresentations. This is true even if the sales contract warns the buyer that the dealer is not responsible for the oral statement of its sales person and that the written contract terms are final. Why? Because an Unfair Trade Practices Act claim is not based on the written contract but rather is based on dealer deceptive practices.

and gives hope that even if I can never find a way of proving his listing misrepresented the true condition of the vehicle his oral insistence the repairs had been made might help support the truth. Also the fact that there would be no reason for a person to spend $7400 for a 2010 vehicle with 180K miles on it if there were not good reason, like believing those repairs had been made, will hopefully help also.
 

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