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Stay At Home Orders

Discussion in 'Constitutional Law & Civil Rights' started by mightymoose, Apr 9, 2020.

  1. mightymoose

    mightymoose Law Topic Starter Moderator

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  2. cbg

    cbg Super Moderator

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    You see it as a win. Not everyone agrees.
     
  3. mightymoose

    mightymoose Law Topic Starter Moderator

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    Obviously.
    There are very few things, if anything, everyone agrees with.
    In every matter brought before the court someone has to be on the losing side.
    Sadly, this only applied to the one church. If it is good for the one it should be good for them all.
    I bet this church has quite a large congregation today, or at least a full parking lot. Perhaps multiple services so everyone can attend.
     
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  4. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    ...........
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2020
  5. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    The DOJ announced Saturday night that it'll be looking into the various "decrees" as regards any violations of 1st amendment freedoms along with any intrusions against personal liberties.

    We should all learn more during the coming week.

    Tick tock...
     
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  6. cbg

    cbg Super Moderator

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    You will never in this world convince me that the pastor of this church is concerned about anything but the collection plate. Nor will you ever convince me that the majority of parishioners are concerned about anything but a chance to show off their clothes and incidentally tell the government that "you can't tell me what to do": There may be a few who genuinely believe that worship doesn't count unless its in the church but I very seriously doubt it's the majority.

    There is NO Biblical basis for the belief that worship has to be in a church building. The early churches met in people's homes. Additionally, Romans 13 informs Christians that they are subject to governing authority...i.e. secular law. Disobeying secular authority is the same as disobeying God.

    The belief that they must be in a church building is no more representative of Christianity as a whole than the jihadists are representative of Islam.

    The church I currently attend is, depending on how you count a couple of mergers and splits, either the eleventh or the thirteenth oldest church of any denomination in the US. I've been a member there for nearly 30 years. But at a church I attended when I lived in another city, we ran into a situation where my church had a smallish congregation and a very large building, whereas another church had a small building that they were bursting out of. The obvious solution was that we exchange buildings, and that is what we did. There was a little bit of "but the building!" in some of our older parishioners but ours was much the more elaborate of the two and they simply didn't want to leave it. Every one of them learned pretty darned quickly that it is not the building that makes the worship and if this church hasn't learned that then it's about damned time they did.

    I attended Easter services this morning complete with music, candlelighting, hymns and even, yes, the collection offering. It can be done;it only takes a little ingenuity. If this church that's so damned determined to pass a deadly virus around to its members in violation of orders had spent a quarter of the energy into figuring out ways to do so as they had in fighting the rule, they'd maybe have learned a couple of things.

    And I think it's time that you learned a couple too - in this internet age freedom of assembly AND freedom of religion do not require being physically present in the same room. I was assembled with my church family this morning even if we were scattered over two towns.

    Think about it.
     
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  7. mightymoose

    mightymoose Law Topic Starter Moderator

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    I believe the church in question, in the article above, was doing services in the parking lot. Everyone remained in their vehicles. It wasn't about the building. They had been forbidden to congregate at all.
     
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  8. mightymoose

    mightymoose Law Topic Starter Moderator

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    Yes, I saw that. Barr's focus was on religious services, but no telling how deep DOJ will dig in to it.
    There are a number of issues that need to be addressed..
     
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  9. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Another bizarre scenario in Philly:

    Shock moment passenger is ‘dragged off Philadelphia bus by 10 cops for not wearing a face mask’

    A prediction:

    This Pandemic Will Lead to Social Revolutions

    One KY community resorts to harmful acts towards churchgoers property:

    https://nypost.com/2020/04/12/kentucky-worshippers-met-with-nails-in-road-as-they-defy-lockdown/

    Hickory dickory dock

    Tick tock Tick Tock
     
  10. cbg

    cbg Super Moderator

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    And IMO the fact that it was the parking lot and not the building does not matter a hoot. My above answer stands.
     
  11. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    You don't seem to understand what I'm telling you here. There are churches, at least in the South, that are NOT part of longer denominations. They have either broken away from or were never part of them in the first place. They make up their own rules based on their own interpretation of the bible. If their paster says it is a sin not to be there every Sunday sitting in the pew then it is their protected religion.
     
  12. cbg

    cbg Super Moderator

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    Then I suggest that each and every one of take their Bibles out and read Romans 13.

    My opinion of any pastor who makes such a decree is expressed above.
     
  13. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    This isn't a biblical argument. At least from my point of view. It is a constitutional argument.
     
  14. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Where does one's right(s) end and another's begin?
     
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  15. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    That is both an excellent question and a slippery slope.

    The whole my right is violated by the exercise of another's right argument can be used to completely destroy a right.
     
  16. cbg

    cbg Super Moderator

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    Look. You are never going to convince me that anyone's constitutional rights are being violated here. And I am never going to convince you that they are not. So let's just agree to disagree and drop it.
     
  17. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    This is a very interesting thread.
    Kudos to all who have chosen to remain civil in their responses to others.
    This thread illustrates that MOST people don't need threats of punishment to respect the rights of others.
     
  18. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure who this was aimed at...
    For my part, I am not trying to "convince" you (or anyone) of anything. I enjoy the discourse ;) My personal opinion is closely aligned with yours, but I can see the validity of the differing viewpoint(s).
     
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  19. cbg

    cbg Super Moderator

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    It wasn't aimed at you, Zig. I was talking to PayrollHRGuy directly and MM and ArmyJudge indirectly.Sorry if that wasn't clear.
     
  20. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    I knew I was included. :)
     
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