statutes relating to traffic enforcement procedures

[viper515]

Jurisdiction

Kansas

I was cited by a small town municipal officer for speeding at a deceleration zone in the late evening (dark). Officer was parked in a parking lot in the town where visual obstructions existed such as a building and signs. The speed limit reduces from 55mph to 35mph and citation was for 55mph in a 35mph. There is some concern of the legality of the 35mph sign as it is posted approx 350ft outside the city limits. The city limit sign is a very small sign posted at the correct location. There is no lighting over the area to illuminate my vehicle or the signs posted.

The officer was only recently hired as a part time officer approx 2mo ago.

My proposed litigation hovers around the legality of the speed limit sign, if any sign reflectivity tests have been conducted, and if there is a legal requirement for the officer to observe my speed for a visual speed estimation. The officer was off the roadway 65ft and I have studied the area and determined that there are no good landmarks in which speed can be estimated, the site is visually impaired due to obstructions and darkness, and even if the officer indicates that my speed was consistent, his radar may have issues as the cosine error at his location would have been constantly increasing thus my speed would have been constantly decreasing even if my speed remained constant.

I would like to find which statutes dictate the legal procedures for traffic enforcement as well as determine how that speed sign came to be. In every other town here, the speed sign exists ONLY at city limit mark. It is located in the county making it unlawful for the city the place the sign there unless other provisions have been granted.

 

[Highwayman]

Sounds like you need professional legal help since you don't know what you're talking about on a few issues.

Landmarks are not needed to perform a visual estimate or speed. Neither is daylight or street lighting.

Speed limit signs do not need to be reflective - if it's dark and you have functioning headlamps you should have no problem seeing signs.

The "cosine effect" is always in favor of the violator - if there is an angle involved it will cause the radar set to indicate a LOWER speed, not a higher one. How do you know radar was used?

People always make issue of obstructions - unless you were in the officer's spot you have no idea what he was able to see or not see.

How do you know what entity placed the speed limit sign in question?

 

[viper515]

I have confirmed that the speed limit sign was set by the county, confirmed with the county traffic engineer. They do all road signs on major roads. There are no speed limit signs within the city limits, whether that matters or not.

I have visited the exact spot where the LEO was sitting at night time. Whether it matters at court or not, there is certainly obstruction and it is rather obvious. Having 20-15 vision and a pilot, I also have night time perception training and that is a rather questionable call.

I am familiar with cosine effect and my general point was that the radar should have been indicating a lower speed the closer I got due to the increasing cosine angle, even if I maintained speed.

I also contacted the second in command with the county sherriff and he knows the area and felt it was a difficult and questionable call to cite in that area due to the circumstances. Yes, I realize his opinions means nothing but I was asking about jurisdictional matters only. I do know the city has no jurisdiction outside the city for traffic enforcement.

I bring up the matter about speed estimations because there is a lot of obstruction and combine that with night time, distance, and angle, it would be very difficult to say much more than "he looked like he was speeding". I bring up the issue about landmarks because there is a deceleration zone there as well as a city limit line. Even with a passing car, you simply cannot see the signs being 500ft in front of an oncoming car due to the headlight glare. Yes, I realize the cop will probably say he has unparalleled powers of sight as an LEO to see such things. I can only call it as a well visioned person taught about the obvious concerns of night time perception.

 

[army judge]

Kansas Supreme Court explains/clarifies extraterritorial jurisdiction of city police officers.

http://www.kscourts.org/Cases-and-Opinions/opinions/supct/2015/20150424/108930.pdf

But before concluding, a word of caution might be in order. Like our sister State to
the West: "'[T]his court cannot sanction willful and recurrent violations of the law'
and . . . future violations 'may trigger application of the [exclusionary] rule.'"
People v. Martinez, 898 P.2d 28, 33 (Colo. 1995) (quoting People v. Wolf,
635 P.2d 213, 217 [Colo. 1981])

Statute | Kansas State Legislature

Many states allow city police officers to enforce city ordinances and state laws along the jurisdictional limits of their city.

Some states, Michigan for example allows city officers to enforce all laws and ordinances wherever observed.

Michigan Legislature - Section 764.2a

Kansas gives such authority to Johnson County Officers for everything.
Sedgewick County City based officers have it for serving warrants only.

However, if "hot pursuit" was triggered, the city officer in YOUR case had the authority to detain you outside the city limits, which means a citation could be issued.

I suggest you ask three or fourt local defense attorneys, just to be sure my limited research is correct.

 

[viper515]

Yes judge, the county PD has pretty much confirmed what you provided. This is not really 'hot pursuit" matter as I was entering into city jurisdiction. I am pretty certain the city will simply claim I was across the line when they observed my speed. I think a normal person could see where this could be questionable having a county speed limit sign 350ft outside the city limit line, and city cops using radar enforcement in that zone.

 

[army judge]

Yes judge, the county PD has pretty much confirmed what you provided. This is not really 'hot pursuit" matter as I was entering into city jurisdiction. I am pretty certain the city will simply claim I was across the line when they observed my speed. I think a normal person could see where this could be questionable having a county speed limit sign 350ft outside the city limit line, and city cops using radar enforcement in that zone.

I never thought hot pursuit was involved.
I only added it to cover all bases.
This might be THAT case you wish to discuss with an attorney.
Until you decide what you're going to do, I suggest you go SILENT, and stay SILENT.
Never tip your hand, never show your cards, unless required.

Sounds as if you were ensnared in a speed trap, mate.

 

[Highwayman]

I have confirmed that the speed limit sign was set by the county, confirmed with the county traffic engineer.

So then on what basis are you questioning the legality of the sign? How is it not enforceable?

 

[army judge]

So then on what basis are you questioning the legality of the sign? How is it not enforceable?

Good question.
It seems that in KS, city police officers (with the exception of those in Johnson County) have limited jurisdiction.

His incident occurred in Sedgewick County.
City officers have no extraterritorial jurisdiction, except under "hot pursuit" and warrant service (search and arrest).

For traffic enforcement, KS limits such enforcement to the city for which the officer serves.

Michigan, for example, has no such restriction,and allows all officers to enforce laws broken within their eyesight.

It appears that OP was cited by a city officer as he entered the city.
Further, the speed limit sign was placed by the county, for a city officer to enforce such a sign, it had to be placed pursuant to a TCO issued by said city.

If this is true, the citation could get tossed.

Texas, for example only grants city officers peace officer status in their own county (to make arrests).

For other purposes, they are peace officers statewide.

Plus, in Texas we have no citizen's arrest, such as FL and CA.

I always delving into these state's rights and law related issues.

 

[Highwayman]

Good question.
It seems that in KS, city police officers (with the exception of those in Johnson County) have limited jurisdiction.

This issue seems to be in regards to the placement of the sign. I am wondering how the OP knows the the sign is placed outside of the city limits by exactly 350 feet.

 

[viper515]

The area was compared with gis mapping and the city's own zoning map. The city limit sign is also posted. That sign is tiny. Approx 6x12". Pretty simple to measure. I am expecting the city to simply claim i was observed exceeding the speed limit inside the city though which could prove hard to disprove.

 

[Highwayman]

I am expecting the city to simply claim i was observed exceeding the speed limit inside the city though which could prove hard to disprove.

Exactly.

 

[army judge]

The area was compared with gis mapping and the city's own zoning map. The city limit sign is also posted. That sign is tiny. Approx 6x12". Pretty simple to measure. I am expecting the city to simply claim i was observed exceeding the speed limit inside the city though which could prove hard to disprove.

Expect NOTHING, if you go to trial.
You might get lucky and the officer could testify he observed you BEFORE you entered the city limits.
I also suggest you check the KS statute about speed limit sugnage, such as lettering and required size.
Good luck.

PS: Don't tip your hand, restrain the urge to chatter.
You gain more by stealth than you do by boast.