I have a friend who was driving back to seattle from California and was pulled over by the CHP who had tracked him by plane going 93 in a 70 mph zone. First and foremost does anyone know how these out of state tickets work? I have looked around and can't seem to find anything about what out of state rules apply. Secondly, Is there any good approach to this method of speed detection? He probably won't fight it since it would require a plane trip to Fresno where the ticket occured, but it would be interesting to know. Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks
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Speeding ticket questions
- Thread Starter Jarod213
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Speeding Ticket from Airplane
A speeding ticket issued form an airplane is legal. It is basically a stopwatch hooked to a computer. There are stripes on the road and the officer in the plane measures your speed by time and distance.
This is a 23mph over ticket which will have a drastic impact on your friend's insurance premiums. The ticket will be reported back to WA and entered on his MVR.
It would be money well spent for your friend to retain an attorney to negotiate for a reduced mph or even online traffic school. Go to the home page of this site and use the Find an Attorney link. If no one is listed send me an email and I can provide some more resources.
As a general rule if there is just this one ticket then your insurance will go up 25% over the next three years. Get another ticket and it will jump 50 to 100%. The attorney is the cheapest route.
A speeding ticket issued form an airplane is legal. It is basically a stopwatch hooked to a computer. There are stripes on the road and the officer in the plane measures your speed by time and distance.
This is a 23mph over ticket which will have a drastic impact on your friend's insurance premiums. The ticket will be reported back to WA and entered on his MVR.
It would be money well spent for your friend to retain an attorney to negotiate for a reduced mph or even online traffic school. Go to the home page of this site and use the Find an Attorney link. If no one is listed send me an email and I can provide some more resources.
As a general rule if there is just this one ticket then your insurance will go up 25% over the next three years. Get another ticket and it will jump 50 to 100%. The attorney is the cheapest route.
California Vehicle Code 2004:
Section 40801. No peace officer or other person shall use a speed trap in arresting, or participating or assisting in the arrest of, any person for any alleged violation of this code nor shall any speed trap be used in securing evidence as to the speed of any vehicle for the purpose of an arrest or prosecution under this code.
Section 40802.(a) A "speed trap" is either of the following (1) A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it takes the vehicle to travel the known distance. (the rest has to do with prima facia stuff like local roads, etc.)
Let me know if you beat it! I'm facing the same situation
Section 40801. No peace officer or other person shall use a speed trap in arresting, or participating or assisting in the arrest of, any person for any alleged violation of this code nor shall any speed trap be used in securing evidence as to the speed of any vehicle for the purpose of an arrest or prosecution under this code.
Section 40802.(a) A "speed trap" is either of the following (1) A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it takes the vehicle to travel the known distance. (the rest has to do with prima facia stuff like local roads, etc.)
Let me know if you beat it! I'm facing the same situation
40801
I also received a ticket clocked by air in California. There were about half dozen officers in a gully pulling us over after the airplane clocked us. They created there own hazard by doing u turns in the middle of the divided highway to go back to their stagging area. I know the officer never paced me from his car. I am not guilty and have pleaded as such. I have a court date coming up soon and two officers have been subpoenaed. Is there a chance with all the cars they were pulling over they got me confused? Does 40801 apply to this situation? Aside from the office in the airplane should the pilot be subpoenaed too? Any help is appreciated. Thanks, ...Rich
I also received a ticket clocked by air in California. There were about half dozen officers in a gully pulling us over after the airplane clocked us. They created there own hazard by doing u turns in the middle of the divided highway to go back to their stagging area. I know the officer never paced me from his car. I am not guilty and have pleaded as such. I have a court date coming up soon and two officers have been subpoenaed. Is there a chance with all the cars they were pulling over they got me confused? Does 40801 apply to this situation? Aside from the office in the airplane should the pilot be subpoenaed too? Any help is appreciated. Thanks, ...Rich
The medium long form: I saw two CHPs with wings patches on their shoulder waiting for court to begin, and assumed they were there for me. When my case was called, only one of them came up to the (docket?), I guess the other was just a buddy. The one that came to the docket stated to the judge he was the pilot, that the issuing officer wasn't present and that the only way they could proceed (prosecute) would be that if I would "stipulate it was me driving the car because he couldn't." The judge asked me if I so stipulated and I said, "No." The judge then dismissed the charge. (Remember, the defense doesn't have to say anything [5th amendment] and so stipulating would be saying something.)
In this Ventura County Court, the judge explained at the beginning that all parties would come forward, the prosecution (cop) would present their case, the defense would present it's case if it so desired (5th amendment) and then the defense would have the opportunity to question the cop(s) and offer any testimony from any of its own witnesses.
I think all airplane tickets are phoney unless the airplane gets the cop on the ground to verify the violation. In my case, the cop pulled onto the freeway in front of me, and I was traveling the speed limit before he ever got to my side or behind me.
I wish I'd spoken to the cop after court and asked him how they clock from the air, but he was acting like such a cop his attitude wouldn't allow for an adult to adult conversation.
In this Ventura County Court, the judge explained at the beginning that all parties would come forward, the prosecution (cop
I think all airplane tickets are phoney unless the airplane gets the cop on the ground to verify the violation. In my case, the cop pulled onto the freeway in front of me, and I was traveling the speed limit before he ever got to my side or behind me.
I wish I'd spoken to the cop after court and asked him how they clock from the air, but he was acting like such a cop his attitude wouldn't allow for an adult to adult conversation.
Whoo Hoo!
I get my court date tomorrow in Sacramento!
I got pulled over in Feb. for allegedly speeding. The assisting officer pulled me over and told me they got me by plane. I called them up and spoke with an officer that flew planes and said they measured by counting the seconds it takes for a vehicle to pass between marked lines. (Speedtrap.) So I will try this California Vehicle code: 40801-40803 out if I get the chance.
Hopefully I am as lucky as PMike.
PS: If you can postpone your trial, the longer the better. Their notes (which you can view through a discover through the court, via The Freedom of Information Act) are only as good as their memory is.
I get my court date tomorrow in Sacramento!
I got pulled over in Feb. for allegedly speeding. The assisting officer pulled me over and told me they got me by plane. I called them up and spoke with an officer that flew planes and said they measured by counting the seconds it takes for a vehicle to pass between marked lines. (Speedtrap.) So I will try this California Vehicle code: 40801-40803 out if I get the chance.
Hopefully I am as lucky as PMike.
PS: If you can postpone your trial, the longer the better. Their notes (which you can view through a discover through the court, via The Freedom of Information Act) are only as good as their memory is.
I'm glad you're aware of the speedtrap sections and I hope the patrolman never clocked you himself. I truly believe an unverified speeding violation from the air is BS. If the officer on the ground was in a patrol car, there's a 70% chance he won't show. If on a bike, he probably will. Don't forget your notes and good luck! Lemme know how it comes out. -Mike
I just got a ticket (today even) in California as well. It was on the highway in Sacramento and I was going a bit fast when I saw a patrol car a little ways up, so i start braking so that he won't see me going fast. Well, I get down to the speed limit by the time I'm near him but he pulls me over anyways, and tickets me for going 83 in a 65 zone. He said that the aircraft clocked me at 83 (there were signs that said speed enforced by aircraft) and so he wrote me up. [Also potentially relevant: I am 17 and just did traffic school for my first ticket of rolling a stop sign (this is the second I have received).]
If I am understanding you all correctly, I can assume that the airplane was using a speedtrap, which is potentially a violation of california law thus nullifying my ticket? If that law does not technically nullify my ticket, then can I at least request a court date and plead not guilty, then hope that either the office or the airplane pilot won't show?? Please give me some information so that I can best defend myself in court.
If I am understanding you all correctly, I can assume that the airplane was using a speedtrap, which is potentially a violation of california law thus nullifying my ticket? If that law does not technically nullify my ticket, then can I at least request a court date and plead not guilty, then hope that either the office or the airplane pilot won't show?? Please give me some information so that I can best defend myself in court.
California speedtrap
The California speedtrap law that you are refering to does not cover highways with a speed limit of 65 or more. It is basically only for local officers and to prevent cities from collecting an unusually large amount of their budget from speeding tickets.
The state naturally wants to keep the money.
My suggestion would be to try the Trial by Declaration route. Possibly both officers may not reply. If you lose request a new trial and then get a continuation. If you get lucky like pmike one of the officers may not show.
The California speedtrap law that you are refering to does not cover highways with a speed limit of 65 or more. It is basically only for local officers and to prevent cities from collecting an unusually large amount of their budget from speeding tickets.
The state naturally wants to keep the money.
My suggestion would be to try the Trial by Declaration route. Possibly both officers may not reply. If you lose request a new trial and then get a continuation. If you get lucky like pmike one of the officers may not show.
okay lwpat, if that cvc does not apply, what is my best route for fighting the ticket? should I try and go via the mail route? If so, how would I do that?
also: If I have school on the day that my court date is set for (im 90% certain I do) then does that give me an excuse to delay things, or only if im not going via mail?
also: If I have school on the day that my court date is set for (im 90% certain I do) then does that give me an excuse to delay things, or only if im not going via mail?
JBeezy, What I'd do is:
Go to the courthouse any day you're available before your due date and either ask for an appointment to speak to the judge or just plead not guilty. If you just plead not guilty, they'll set a trial date that coincides with local law enforcement agencies - this slightly increases the availability of the required officers. If you see the judge (another visit to the courthouse), he will set a date that might not be as convenient for law enforcement. Ask for a Friday afternoon? Secondly, after being thoroughly versed with the aforementioned sections of DMV's book found at (www.dmv.ca.gov), you were busted in a speedtrap, at any speed, on any highway in California. No ifs, ands, or butts
Go to the courthouse any day you're available before your due date and either ask for an appointment to speak to the judge or just plead not guilty. If you just plead not guilty, they'll set a trial date that coincides with local law enforcement agencies - this slightly increases the availability of the required officers. If you see the judge (another visit to the courthouse), he will set a date that might not be as convenient for law enforcement. Ask for a Friday afternoon? Secondly, after being thoroughly versed with the aforementioned sections of DMV's book found at (www.dmv.ca.gov), you were busted in a speedtrap, at any speed, on any highway in California. No ifs, ands, or butts
My case dismissed!
My case dismissed!
Before I went to court I actually spoke with the guys in CHP who do the plane monitoring.
He said he based my speed on the time it took for me to travel between the lines on the road. Knowing this I had to go into court and prove several things.
1. This is the method he used to get my speed.
2. That method is the only method he used to get my speed.
3. The assisting officer did not measure my speed.
I was going to ask the officers direct questions such as, "Is there any other means you used to measure my speed? Did you measure my speed? etc etc"
You can also ask the court to do a discovery and get the officers personal notes and any other documents pertaining to this case. It's called The Freedom of Information Act.
Well as I figured, I went to my arraingment and plead not guilty. Schedule a court date, though I didn't take the first 3 they gave me. I made them work for it. While at the arraignment someone asked about the probability that the Arresting officer AND Assisting officer will show for his plane ticket. The judge responds, "Oh here in this division (Sacramento), they show up 90% of the time." That person plead guilty. Poor soul.
Well I must be lucky.I showed up on my court date, with The CVC codes printed out. They did roll call and after every ones' last name they would say, "Officer?". Then the corresponding officer would respond. Well they called my name and a officer said, "Here!". I felt a sudden rush of testosterone as I was going to be able to argue my case and prove the CA courts wrong! Then they had a few no shows from both sides. They started court by dismissing several cases off the bat b/c the officers no showed. After that was done the judge was ready to proceed. Then the clerk said to the judge, "Uh we have one more your honor, [My Last_Name] case." I was called up and dismissed b/c the Arresting officer [plane officer] didn't show. When walking out the other officer that was there also was dismissed. I caught up to him afterwards and asked him what he thought about my documents. He reads the first CVC speed trap law, that states they can't use speed traps as evidence. Then he said, "well this wasn't a speed trap." Ah Ha! I showed him page 2! Which defined a speed trap. He says, "oh well [back peddling,, yadda yadda] maybe he followed you and timed your speed." But he wasn't sure.
Do your homework folks.
This is such a money maker for the state and we shouldn't be paying for this non-sense. They had a seperate multi-tens_of-millions of dollar court house just for traffic court. I thought that was ridiculus!
My case dismissed!
Before I went to court I actually spoke with the guys in CHP who do the plane monitoring.
He said he based my speed on the time it took for me to travel between the lines on the road. Knowing this I had to go into court and prove several things.
1. This is the method he used to get my speed.
2. That method is the only method he used to get my speed.
3. The assisting officer did not measure my speed.
I was going to ask the officers direct questions such as, "Is there any other means you used to measure my speed? Did you measure my speed? etc etc"
You can also ask the court to do a discovery and get the officers personal notes and any other documents pertaining to this case. It's called The Freedom of Information Act.
Well as I figured, I went to my arraingment and plead not guilty. Schedule a court date, though I didn't take the first 3 they gave me. I made them work for it. While at the arraignment someone asked about the probability that the Arresting officer AND Assisting officer will show for his plane ticket. The judge responds, "Oh here in this division (Sacramento), they show up 90% of the time." That person plead guilty. Poor soul.
Well I must be lucky.I showed up on my court date, with The CVC codes printed out. They did roll call and after every ones' last name they would say, "Officer?". Then the corresponding officer would respond. Well they called my name and a officer said, "Here!". I felt a sudden rush of testosterone as I was going to be able to argue my case and prove the CA courts wrong! Then they had a few no shows from both sides. They started court by dismissing several cases off the bat b/c the officers no showed. After that was done the judge was ready to proceed. Then the clerk said to the judge, "Uh we have one more your honor, [My Last_Name] case." I was called up and dismissed b/c the Arresting officer [plane officer] didn't show. When walking out the other officer that was there also was dismissed. I caught up to him afterwards and asked him what he thought about my documents. He reads the first CVC speed trap law, that states they can't use speed traps as evidence. Then he said, "well this wasn't a speed trap." Ah Ha! I showed him page 2! Which defined a speed trap. He says, "oh well [back peddling,, yadda yadda] maybe he followed you and timed your speed." But he wasn't sure.
Do your homework folks.
This is such a money maker for the state and we shouldn't be paying for this non-sense. They had a seperate multi-tens_of-millions of dollar court house just for traffic court. I thought that was ridiculus!
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