selling a lot

[bob palmer]

Jurisdiction

Michigan

i have a question about selling a lot that has 7 siblings on the deed with 2 of them dead.

 

[army judge]

i have a question about selling a lot that has 7 siblings on the deed with 2 of them dead.

Depending upon the value of the lot, you might wish to seek a consultation with a local real estate attorney.

You appear to have five living people on the deed, with two deceased people on deed.

The two dead people probably had heirs, which further complicates the sale of the property, presuming there are any potential buyers.

 

[bob palmer]

one brother moved to la. and his wife has since died. they did not have kids but he has 2 kids close to us.

the other brother's wife is in town but we have not heard from her in over 15 years. and have no idea if she is alive or even where she is. he also has 3 kids in town.

so because there is taxes and association fees every year that those 2 brothers have never ever contributed to do we still need to get them off the deed or can we use the death certificates to get them off the deed.

if not can we make the living heirs pay their share of all the taxes and association fees or will we need to get all of the brothers kids and the if still living wife to sign quit claim deeds

or will we need to get the dead brothers estates probated? outside of this lot they had no money at all.



we do not have any idea of the lots value at this time. i have contacted a realtor in the area and have asked them if they have a clue to the lot's value.

do you think the realtor will be able to sell the lot and get the 2 dead brothers of the deed?

thanks.

 

[adjusterjack]

How is the ownership shown on the deed?

Is it something like "A, B, C, D, E, F, G as joint owners with right of survivorship?"

Or something else.

Quote it word for word using letters instead of names.

 

[army judge]

do we still need to get them off the deed or can we use the death certificates to get them off the deed.

It isn't that easy.

If they have heirs, their heirs MIGHT be entitled to a share.

Even if the deceased people paid NOTHING, they remained owners.

That is one of the issues when you name multiple people to a deed, you'll always discover a deadbeat or two.

if not can we make the living heirs pay their share of all the taxes and association fees or will we need to get all of the brothers kids and the if still living wife to sign quit claim deeds

You can't make anyone on deed pay a penny for anything.

You can ask a court to partition (force a court sale) the property.

do you think the realtor will be able to sell the lot and get the 2 dead brothers of the deed?

Not any easier than you could.

The real estate salesperson would likely retain an attorney and pass along a 20-30% profit on top of the attorney's fees for their cut of the action.

Hiring your own attorney should be cheaper.

 

[bob palmer]

How is the ownership shown on the deed?

Is it something like "A, B, C, D, E, F, G as joint owners with right of survivorship?"

Or something else.

Quote it word for word using letters instead of names.

it started out under the wife's name with a quit claim deed. and then after her dad died she put it in all the kids names.
1. her name is on the top first listed and that says personal representative of the estate of her father. then it goes on to say
2. deceased conveys to my wife
3. then the first dead brother a married man and address
4. then her sister but does not say married and address
5. then another brother and married man and address
6. then another brother a married man and address
7. then another brother and a single man. and address. (he married a few years later) as tenants in common, all of the interests of the estate of my wife's father deceased in the following described situation in the township of star county of antrim state of mi.

then it tells about the lot giving the lot number and the county

then it says the warranties given are binding upon the estate, as thought made by the descendant, but are not binding upon the personal representative in his separate capicity. the personal representative in his fiduciary capacity also warrants against encumbrances created or permitted by him as fiduciary

for the sum of $1.00 and then dated oct 21 1994

it then goes on to give names of the county clerk and the wife being the personal representative of her father deceased.

is this any help?

 

[bob palmer]

It isn't that easy.

If they have heirs, their heirs MIGHT be entitled to a share. one brother has a dead wife and no kids there but he has 2 kids here

Even if the deceased people paid NOTHING, they remained owners.

That is one of the issues when you name multiple people to a deed, you'll always discover a deadbeat or two.

yes i know i tried to tell her


You can't make anyone on deed pay a penny for anything.

You can ask a court to partition (force a court sale) the property.
we may have to got hat route as a last resort




Not any easier than you could.

The real estate salesperson would likely retain an attorney and pass along a 20-30% profit on top of the attorney's fees for their cut of the action.

Hiring your own attorney should be cheaper.

we may wind up doing that but if the realtor that is in that are gives us a ballpark sales number and if is not much we may just let it go and take the credit hit. then because no one but the remaining siblings are paying the rest should not have any say in it.

 

[army judge]

then because no one but the remaining siblings are paying the rest should not have any say in it.

Before you do something that ends up costing you a mint, it would serve you best to speak to a licensed attorney in Michigan.

You have no clue as to what you are about to do.

I'm licensed to practice law in several states, including Michigan.

There is ONLY one way to have someone taken off deed legally, and it isn't easy.

The heirs of deadbeats are often bigger deadbeats than their progenitor.

 

[bob palmer]

thanks amy. i understand y=what your saying. but to be honest if we just let it go for back taxes ther is not much any of the others that have no clue can do. i do not believe they can force us to keep paying taxes on that lot.

also i bet none of them actually know this exists. one problem is but for the wife none of the rest living siblings has any money to even pay a lawyer. that is wyh they are saying to just let it go back to the state. i can't believe any so called heirs can do anything if we just do not pay anymore taxes. thanks

 

[army judge]

i do not believe they can force us to keep paying taxes on that lot.

True, even the tax thief (aka gubmint) can't force you to pay taxes.
The tax thief, however, can steal your property if taxes are not paid.
The problem here is why one shouldn't bequeath property to more than one person.

Selling the property on your own is probably the best way to go.

If the court gets involved, like true thieves, the court gets it cut, too.
Plus, the court's "bagman" takes a piece of the pie.
Whatever is left you folks keep.

also i bet none of them actually know this exists.

That might be true, but greed makes fools seem like geniuses.

i can't believe any so called heirs can do anything if we just do not pay anymore taxes

You are correct, if you stop paying taxes, eventually the gubmint tax thief will simply take the land.

My wife could have inherited a piece of property, but others were on the deed.

After we discussed it, she had nothing to do with it, the others fought over it like rabid wolves.

 

[bob palmer]

True, even the tax thief (aka gubmint) can't force you to pay taxes.
The tax thief, however, can steal your property if taxes are not paid.
The problem here is why one shouldn't bequeath property to more than one person.

Selling the property on your own is probably the best way to go.

If the court gets involved, like true thieves, the court gets it cut, too.
Plus, the court's "bagman" takes a piece of the pie.
Whatever is left you folks keep.



That might be true, but greed makes fools seem like geniuses.



You are correct, if you stop paying taxes, eventually the gubmint tax thief will simply take the land.

My wife could have inherited a piece of property, but others were on the deed.

After we discussed it, she had nothing to do with it, the others fought over it like rabid wolves.

thanks amy the only gubmint in this case will be the state or the township. and then they will just resell it. you have to understand we have been paying on this lot for over 25 years, and all the siblings are just tired of it.and they just do not want it. the rest of the siblings and for that matter the so called interested parties have no credit to speak of but for us and because we do not really need to use that credit for much now we are debt free. and if the township or the state actually turn this in if we just let it go back i do not think it will hurt us much if anything. yes it may be a gig on our credit but that would be the only gig in all our life. the rest have fair to poor credit so at this point they are not going to be hurting form it either if it goes back to the state.
we thought of just signing quit claim deeds but then i think if some of the dead beats ever found out they then could come back on us, for not giving them anything. but if it goes back for taxes i'm not thinking that they could do anything about that. like you said they can't make up pay the taxes.

but like i said in the beginning. i sent an email to a realtor that sells land up in that subdivision, if the get back to ma and tell me they can get some money for it then we may seek a land attorney and get it check out to see if it will be worth it to sell or let go back. thanks

 

[army judge]

but like i said in the beginning. i sent an email to a realtor that sells land up in that subdivision, if the get back to ma and tell me they can get some money for it then we may seek a land attorney and get it check out to see if it will be worth it to sell or let go back. thanks

You're welcome.

No crime in what you're considering.

I agree, why should one or two pay the taxes to allow the other three or four to benefit for free?

Furthermore, once you've escaped the clutches of the credit monsters, you know never to get caught again.

I wish you well, mate.

 

[adjusterjack]

With tenants in common each brother's share goes to his own heirs. For the deceased brothers to be removed from the equation, their estates would have to be probated and the heirs would have to disclaim their inheritances and quitclaim their interest to the remaining 5 brothers.

You are probably looking at spending a few thousand on a lawyer just to get that far.

Once that is accomplished, in order to sell the land you would need the signatures of all the owners on the sales contract to sign the contract and the deed transferring the property to the next owner.

With the apathy, complacency, and recalcitrance you have described, good luck with that, even if you are willing to spend more thousands of dollars on an attorney to get all that done.

I think the idea of letting it go for taxes is a good idea unless you find that the land is worth enough money to make it worth the cost.

That is one of the issues when you name multiple people to a deed,

And the absolute worst thing that a parent can do to his/her children, leaving property to them jointly.

 

[bob palmer]

With tenants in common each brother's share goes to his own heirs. For the deceased brothers to be removed from the equation, their estates would have to be probated and the heirs would have to disclaim their inheritances and quitclaim their interest to the remaining 5 brothers.

You are probably looking at spending a few thousand on a lawyer just to get that far.

Once that is accomplished, in order to sell the land you would need the signatures of all the owners on the sales contract to sign the contract and the deed transferring the property to the next owner.

With the apathy, complacency, and recalcitrance you have described, good luck with that, even if you are willing to spend more thousands of dollars on an attorney to get all that done.

I think the idea of letting it go for taxes is a good idea unless you find that the land is worth enough money to make it worth the cost.
the living siblings arn not against each other over this but we have the 2 dead brothers estates that never got probated and they have kids and one has a living wife. so that is why i'm asking this question. i have sent an email to a realtor in the area of the lot and asked them if they can give me an idea of the value of the lot. if it is worth say 50k it will be worth it but if it is worth say 25k we are going to let ig go for taxes. i do not think we can sign any quit claim deeds back to the township as that will then show intent to defraud. but if we just let it go for taxes becasue we just don't want to pay them anymore i can't see that being intent to defraud. and not one sibling want the land even if we sing the quit claim deed of to them. what type of lawyer would i look for to review this and see if it is worth going for? thanks



And the absolute worst thing that a parent can do to his/her children, leaving property to them jointly.

well amy the parant did not do this the wife did it trying to be honest with the others. this was done just after their dad died and they have the house and personalproperty plus that land to devide up. so you can see how much she had to do just to make it fair. not one of the others stepped in to help. but that is water under the bridge. and at the time not one of them would say they did not want it. they all wanted that land but not one us included had money to do anything with it.
now for 25 years we pay for a dead horse because now no one even cares. and like everyone says it just is a total mess. so we are just thinking of not paying anymore and letting it go back. this way no one later can take up to court and say hey you got something i should have got a part of and now i want it.

 

[adjusterjack]

we are just thinking of not paying anymore and letting it go back.

I would want to know what the market value was before I did that. If it's not worth the cost of preserving it then, yes, let it go.

However, if you find out it's worth a lot of money your relatives may decide to contribute to unraveling the legal mess rather than lose it.

 

[bob palmer]

thanks adjusterjack. none of the people on the fiducary deed want anything to do with the land anymore. we talked to them the other day. i just looked that lot up on google maps and there is not any neighbors close to that lot so my bet is no one is interested in grabbing it for an added next door lot like some do in cities to get a larger lot.

the county said they do not toss it into the credit pool and the state told me they do not do it either. now to see if the association does. if they say they do i may tell them we want to just let it go back and maybe they will just not send us anymore dues. or at the least not turn unpaid dues onto our credit. the credit would go only against us and the wife has that part in her name. as the representative of the lot.

i asked my homeowners insurance guy about finding a lawyer that does this stuff and he wants to send the deed to one of his friends in the deeds department to see if the names on the deed mean anything. the way it is worded may make it so just the wife has the legal authority to do anything with that lot. if so that will be great and then we can just sell it and split the money after it's sold.
if not we will let it go for taxes and just be done with it. thanks

 

[army judge]

i asked my homeowners insurance guy about finding a lawyer that does this stuff and he wants to send the deed to one of his friends in the deeds department to see if the names on the deed mean anything. the way it is worded may make it so just the wife has the legal authority to do anything with that lot. if so that will be great and then we can just sell it and split the money after it's sold.
if not we will let it go for taxes and just be done with it. thanks

Excellent strategy, let us know what you learn.

 

[bob palmer]

i have been checking all day and i see the taxes are current and the one tax that went back to the state back in 2000 i have a deed to that says recumberance back to use. and because we was told that would go against our credit we got it back from the state at great cost. and now i find out the county and state does not turn in back taxes against your credit. anyway if we can get the wife to be the total executor if it is worded that way then we will just sell it and split it with the survivors.
so this week we are going to sent a copy of the deeds to the insurance guy and he going to send it to his friend to see if we have any rights to it or if we have to get the estates to sign it off. if they tell up to get the estate people to sign quit claim deeds then we will contact those that we know of and get that done.

someone told us if we put an add in the local paper telling anyone with interest if her dads estate to get in touch with us and no one does in the alloted time that this will be over and done with and those people will have waived there rights to protest and we can use the death certificates to show death and then sign the dead brothers off the deed.

but i do not think that works for a deed. thanks

 

[army judge]

but i do not think that works for a deed. thanks

I think you have your automobile on the right highway and you're headed for the city of Satisfaction in the state of YOU GOT PAID!

 

[bob palmer]

we have a lot in upper michigan that has 7 siblings on it. 2 have died and nver got there estates probated. now we want to just stop paying taxes and the association fees becasue no one wants the lot and it is worth like 1k.
so the county and the state told me they do not turn in the taxes but the association said they turn in the late dues. and they turn them into a collection place. well if we just fail to pay anything of course we will lose the lot but how will this affect us for the collection company.

i figure we will take a credit hit but what can the collection company do to us? can they go after our bank accounts or take us to court or what is they do? or can we quit claim our share of the lot back to the association and then they can't come after us? what can we do any ideas. thanks