1. Free Legal Help, Legal Forms and Lawyers. TheLaw.com has been providing free legal assistance online since 1995. Our most popular destinations for legal help are below. It only takes a minute to join our legal community!

    Dismiss Notice

Seizing debtors real property

Discussion in 'Other Debt, Collection, Garnishment' started by Carguy117, Apr 1, 2017.

  1. Carguy117

    Carguy117 Law Topic Starter New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Jurisdiction:
    Tennessee
    I was told that a ex business partner was going to or has filed bankruptcy even after we had won our judgement by default and then won a second order to seize the business property but had not collected yet my lawyer had talked to him, he was to make a list of property to be sold or picked up by law enforcement and then did this or started the process of bankruptcy.

    The guy is a low life, I had bought part of the business and had in writing if i were to back out i would get my money plus interest. Well I was in the legal process of talking with a lawyer when i was locked out from the business and not paid. I also had found him owing other people money, writing checks then stalling to pay back so people wouldn't call the police. He has now basicly stolen from me and using bankruptcy to hide and I can't press charges ? Is there any way to have him arrested and collect my money and prevent him from ever legally having a business again ? Is there anyway to have bankruptcy taken away from him ?

    I also know he had not been collecting taxes and making up numbers to show the irs, He admitted to having different record books which is tax fraud from what i understand.
     
  2. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

    Messages:
    7,706
    Likes Received:
    1,970
    Trophy Points:
    113

    OK, which is it? Going to? Or has filed? If you don't know for sure, you had better find out.

    You can search the bankruptcy court filings through PACER:

    Public Access to Court Electronic Records

    If he hasn't filed you may continue any collection proceedings that you have already started.

    If he has filed his petition and listed his judgment/debt to you then the automatic stay prevents you from proceeding any further.

    If he is successful in discharging all his debts, then you are done.

    If you think he has committed fraud against you, you can file an adversary action and try to convince the bankruptcy court to declare his debt to you as non-dischargable and to lift the stay so you can pursue collection. You will need an attorney for that.

    Report him to the IRS, state, and local taxing authorities. Won't get you any money any time soon but might give you some satisfaction if he gets prosecuted.
     
  3. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

    Messages:
    32,004
    Likes Received:
    4,764
    Trophy Points:
    113


    You should not speak to other lawyers, curious people, or even people that seem to be helpful; once you've engaged an attorney.

    That said, if you no longer have THAT attorney, hire another one ASAP.

    Why?

    Bankruptcy changes EVERYTHING, mate.

    If your soon to be former partner is a scumball, a shyster, a cheater, a conman, a scammer, or all of that and MORE; this is not the time to try and recoup a dime without professional guidance.
     
  4. Carguy117

    Carguy117 Law Topic Starter New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    If i understood correctly he has started, the lawyer was checking on something with a bankruptcy lawyer but he had also talked about just giving up/being done with the case. He said i could get a paper in the mail for my claim in the bankruptcy case.
    What would be considered fraud to get a adversary action against him ? I mean him locking me out of the business when I would not let him pay people with bad checks, finding out his debts, he did not report or keeping all records of scrap gold and silver he bought and sold, did not hold scrap gold and silver for the legal 30 day period before selling it to be melted, not reporting taxes and making profits for over a year until a week ago after the lawyer told him to make a list and get the inventory ready or the law enforcement would come and collect. I do have the document he signed in front of a lawyer saying he had x amont of wholesale value just in the store and would pay back the money if i backed out which i was doing when this started. I doubt it would match what he claims the value of the store is now, I do have very good reason to believe he would hide property, not list it or has already taken out and sold things. He would hide from the people he owed money, thats how i found out about his debts. He also never showed up to either court case and I won by default. I talked with someone in law enforcement that knows he's written bad checks but he talked the people out of pressing charges against him and they would even like him shut down. Yet a lot of people still think he is a nice guy and people still believe his stories.
     
  5. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

    Messages:
    32,004
    Likes Received:
    4,764
    Trophy Points:
    113


    Do you want to get money back that you think he owes you?
    That is a civil matter.
    If so, forget the alleged crimes he committed.
    If he owes you money, sue him.

    If he owes you lots of money, hire a lawyer to bring the lawsuit.

    If he owes you $5,000, even $10,000, that can be handled in small claims court without a lawyer.

    But, why waste your time?

    If he's going to prison, he will have zero money.

    If you have information that he committed crimes, talk to the proper law enforcement agency, ASAP.

    If you believe he has committed tax related crimes, report them to the IRS.

    If it is about state sales tax, contact the TN sales tax authorities.
     
  6. Carguy117

    Carguy117 Law Topic Starter New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I need advice on a judgement I have against someone.


    Backstory - I invested into a small business for 50% of the business that was drafted by a lawyer and signed by the owner but nothing formal my name was never actually added to anything in the business . The guy had me and a lot of people fooled by running something like a pyramid scheme. He would pay debts with money from others, write bad checks to cover that debt until he got someone else’s money and so on. I got locked out when I realized how bad things were, I had a back out option the one lawyer drafted and tried to warn people but only a few listened. I took him to court and won by default. After a year of trying to seize the business “he always ran before the sheriff could show up” he closed up the store took everything of value and ran. My Lawyer I guess gave up when he heard the guy filed for bankruptcy because I never heard from him again. The guy left a lot of angry people. he owed them tens of thousands more than me, that was adding up what people had told me. I doubt they ever got paid back. I found out he never paid the lawyer to file the bankruptcy. He also owed the land lord almost $4,000.

    I saw him later in a store and confronted him, walked up right behind him and made him jumpy by just being calm. I may have put the idea in his head that he was being watched but he wasn’t. Then shortly after I heard a rumor about where he worked at and sent the sheriff to garnish his wages and I have been getting checks twice a month on time for 2 years. He has paid about 2/5 of the debt so far not including interest.

    Now-

    Last month I only received a $36 check and if I were to get another check it would be this week. He might have been laid off, not sure. I have no way to contact him. My problem is I really need a new HVAC unit for my house and would like it before winter and cannot afford it otherwise because of this debt. I could get a new one with just the interest he owes from the judgement.


    I don’t have money for another lawyer, I also have not done a post judgement discovery. I doubt he would tell the truth anyway and getting him in the court would also be a problem.

    I don’t know what else to do.

    I really need to get on time payments so I could cover financing a new HVAC unit or get a lump some payment which would be preferred just to be done with him. I wouldn’t even care about the interest. The money he took is causing hardship on me, where he should be suffering financially.


    Would trying the post judgement discovery and drag him to court then make him a offer for him to pay or I could bluff with a few folders of empty papers because there were tons of documents that he left behind but by now are trashed. When he ran I found and set documents aside in the building next door . The business check book, copies of bounced checks in the thousands and enough evidence to prove he lied to the IRS. That information could cost him so much more than what he owes me. He knows what he has done and could easily weight the consequences of if information actually got released. Plus if he doesn’t want to pay me then all the other people he owes might like to have a chat with him. Offer him what amounts to mutually assured destruction, if I lose then he will lose.

    The judge never had a case like mine before, the police knew of the guy and wanted him shut down but He talked his way out of people calling them and pressing charges. He had some customers complain to the DA’s office which was visible from the business and they couldn’t do anything. The IRS had him under investigation but he’s still free. This was anything but a civil matter, the guy is a con artist but apply enough pressure about involving law enforcement then he will do anything to avoid dealing with them.

    One instance He still owed a regular customer $800 right before he ran away and the guy still feels sorry for him. There is no telling how many people are actually out there.

    I would just like my money after that I don’t care what happens to him, I was going to put up a notice where to find him so everyone else that didn’t believe me can catch up with him.
     
  7. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes Received:
    1,826
    Trophy Points:
    113

    You can't take what he doesn't have. The wage garnishment is likely the best tool for getting reimbursed.
    You don't know if he has lost the job he could have taken vacation time. Why not call the employer and just ask of he is still employed there?
     
  8. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    1,092
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Here's your prior thread about the matter: Question
     
  9. Carguy117

    Carguy117 Law Topic Starter New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I found and verified the debtors real property this week. He recieved a warranty deed from the owner last year. I just attached a Judgement lien on the property. Which one Gov website listed him as owner, everything else I found listed the old owner.
    I don't have money for a lawyer.
    I don't know what would be the most effective action or how to go about seizing and selling his property and house if possible. I would like to do it as fast as possible and just overwhelm him with bad and worse options if he doesn't pay or allow the sale. If I understand correctly to levy a house in TN you need a deposit or something plus fees. A move for a order of sale would notify him ?

    The guy could care less about the legal system unless it benefits him. The guy can't be trusted to follow orders or tell the truth even under oath. He ran a coin business gold and silver and cheated people, wrote bad checks, law enforcement wanted to shut him down. 90% sure he paid for that property

    RULE 69.07: EXECUTION ON REALTY
    (3) Levy. As long as a judgment lien is effective, no levy is necessary; the judgment creditor may move for an order of sale. Otherwise a levy occurs when the sheriff exercises control over the judgment debtor’s realty.
     
  10. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

    Messages:
    7,706
    Likes Received:
    1,970
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Reality check: You're going to need a lawyer.

    If you can't or won't get one you'll just have to wait until he tries to sell or refinance the property.
     
  11. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

    Messages:
    32,004
    Likes Received:
    4,764
    Trophy Points:
    113

    If your debtor files for bankruptcy, you'll probably never collect a dime.

    That said, stop making noise and proceed with stealth, lest you frighten your debtor to file for bankruptcy.

    If he is a wily as you assert, he may already be marching down that path.

    Tennessee law provides a paltry ten thousand dollar ($10,000) personal property exemption from execution or seizure to satisfy a judgment.

    Under the Tennessee exemption system, homeowners may exempt up to $5,000 of their home or other property covered by the homestead exemption which is a principal place of residence. Joint owners of property, such as married couples, may claim up to $7,500 on property used as their principal place of residence.

    Tennessee Code Title 26. Execution § 26-2-114 | FindLaw.

    Tennessee Exemptions – Creditors Rights 101

    2014 Tennessee Code :: Title 26 - Execution :: Chapter 2 - Exemptions--Garnishment :: Part 1 - Exemptions :: § 26-2-103 - Personal property selectively exempt from seizure; exception.
     
  12. Carguy117

    Carguy117 Law Topic Starter New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I can't afford a lawyer. I have tried 6 lawyers for help before finding this property and confirmed his ownership. l also tried the legal aid society who couldn't help with collections.
    The Judgement was in 2016 and its been almost a year since I stopped collecting the wage garnishment September 2019.
    One of the lawyers I tried also happened to be the lawyer he used to get the warranty deed made December 2019. Which the register of deeds gave me a copy and property value when I went there this week.

    The property itself is valued at $24,000 for 6 acres and the home value $140-160,000. Where he owes me around 20k still.

    Is a warranty deed in this guys name as sole owner "non married" on the deed from the original owner mean there should be no mortgage or debt to it ?
     
  13. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

    Messages:
    32,004
    Likes Received:
    4,764
    Trophy Points:
    113

    It might.

    It also might not have all liens recorded properly, or at all.

    If you want an accurate answer, a tile insurance agency might be able to assist you for a nominal fee.

    Courts are generally reluctant to force the sale of a person's home to satisfy a private debt.

    Even the IRS is reluctant to do, insofar as the taxpayer isn't a wealthy person.

    If you do get the matter before a court, the debtor would likely file a chapter seven bankruptcy to forestall his property being sold at auction and eventually seeking to have all qualifying debts discharged by the federal bankruptcy court.
     
  14. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

    Messages:
    7,706
    Likes Received:
    1,970
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Maybe. You can do a search for recorded documents under his name and see if there is a mortgage or deed of trust.

    Why did you stop wage garnishment?

    That's because they know the futility of trying to take somebody's house to satisfy a debt.
     
  15. Carguy117

    Carguy117 Law Topic Starter New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Well he did own a business and ran away from paying his debts when he took all valuable items with him. I have the paper he signed in front of the lawyer where the business was worth $75k and he would have to pay back my investment for which I was to get 50% ownership/inventory. But him locking me out made it a breach of contract.

    When/how would the debt be secure from bankruptcy ?
    I only stopped collecting because he was laid off and apparently garnishment doesn't follow him I have to find where his new job is.
    I also didn't know his address and location at the time of contacting the lawyers or if he actually owned property or had just rented or if he was still even in the state at the time. I just wanted to drag him into court for a post judgment discovery to start with find what he had and take it.
    But I have gotten responses from some people that he owed and they agree with my own theory. He doesn't want to actually set foot in a court room, he doesn't want to deal with legal problems or law enforcement, he will only do minimum leg work throw a smoke screen and if you keep going after him and don't let up he will pay. I think he is afraid of the skeletons in his closet that would come out if bankruptcy was actually filed and it was contested. He might claim to file but like the last time, he probably wouldn't go through with it.
     
  16. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

    Messages:
    32,004
    Likes Received:
    4,764
    Trophy Points:
    113

    A private debt is never so secure that your target/mark/debtor can't file for BK or other legal relief, unless the debtor filed for a BK and ten years have not yet elapsed.

    You also must understand that the secured creditors (1st and maybe 2nd mortgage holders) have secured interests in the mortgage debt owed by your target.

    Again, courts aren't eager to dispossess homeowners for debts unrelated to the mortgage.
     
  17. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

    Messages:
    7,706
    Likes Received:
    1,970
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Then keep going after him. But you are going to have to resign yourself to hiring a lawyer if you want to go after his house. If you knew how to do it you wouldn't be here asking about it and we are not allowed to give step by step legal instructions.
     

Share This Page