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On National Forest Land

Discussion in 'Parking Tickets, Towing, Impound' started by Disabled Vet, Nov 20, 2015.

  1. Disabled Vet

    Disabled Vet Law Topic Starter Active Member

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    Jurisdiction:
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    There is a hunting trial ( driving with truck/car ) in place for people with disabilities. For years we have been working with the National forest people to get this trail fixed. Currently if you drive down the trail branches will scrape the side of your auto. This has been going on since 2006. At one point members of their unit came to the trail and did some great work on it. Now all those people are gone and those that have taken their place are not keeping this trail up to date. Since they don't allow ATV or OHV on the trail I have always said " Since I use my ATV/OHV out there sometimes my truck doesn't get scraped " Of course they remind me that ATV/OHV are not allowed.

    Last friday a friend from my military days flew in from Texas to spend the weekend hunting with me. He and I pulled up to the gate to this area. You have to have a key issued to gain access to this trail. At the same time a federal conservation office vehicle pulled up behind us. We got out and i knew one of the guys in the truck. He and I were talking... I told him that those ATV tracks around the gate and thru the woods were not mine. I stated to him that i would only use my atv/ohv on the trail if i had it out there. He stated " Yes we are looking into atv/ohv use" I said " Not mine are you? Since you know i have used mined out there." We both laughed... I got in my truck to pull thru the gate. About this time the Federal Conservation officer walked up to my truck. He asked... Did i hear you correctly, did you say that you have used your atv/ohv out here. I said "Yes, as a matter of fact i have had forest personal ride in it as well." So he asked for my driver license. Any way... he issued a ticket for using my atv/ohv on the trail. Now.... I didn't have the atv with me at the time. Nor has anyone seen me ride my atv/ohv out there. So i didn't have to sign the ticket. But after he issued the ticket he told me he needed my SSN as well. He wrote that down in a notebook. I took the ticket, smiled and continued down the trail in my truck. That was a friday.... The following Monday he called me stating we needed to meet to talk about information he failed to get from me. He wanted me to meet him back out at the trail. I honestly am to busy with the passing of my mother to travel back out there. So he wanted to make i date in the future... so i told him pick a day... so 2 weeks from now we are to meet back out there. Question... can they issue a ticket for saying that i had used a atv/ohv out there in the past. Will the ticket stick when i fight it. Am i required to go back out there for a meeting to give him more information?

    Thanks for your input.
     
  2. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    Obviously they CAN do it because they DID do it. You walk up to a cop and say "I robbed a bank last month" and, guess what, you'll get arrested on the spot.

    When I was in the Army I was taught never to volunteer. :) Did you miss that lesson?

    Dunno. Depends on the exact words of the statute that you are alleged to have violated. Cite it for me please.

    You've already gotten the ticket. Going back to meet the officer will only result in you further incriminating yourself. You've already said way too much.

    Watch this video:

     
  3. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Well, there HE is again, my good friend Professor James Duane.
    The guy is a fifth amendment expert, for sure.
    Heck, he's a strict constructionist constitutionally, too.
    He just might be a Supreme one of these days.
     
  4. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Something smells, my friend.
    Be very careful anytime you talk to the police.
    But, never, ever under any circumstances discuss ANYTHING with any federal agent.
    Need I remind you of Martha Stewart?
    If I were you, I'd engage an attorney and direct him or her to inform that federal agent that under advice of counsel you decline his interview invitation.

    You also are now asserting your fifth amendment protection and will stand on your right to remain silent.

    Furthermore, you must affirmatively assert your Miranda and 5th amendment protections.

    You're a bright guy, but that won't matter when being interviewed by a federal agent. One innocent misstatement can cause you to be indicted for LYING to a federal agent.
     
    Disabled Vet likes this.
  5. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    That's a very appropriate video for these legal websites and I post it often.
     
  6. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    I agree, and have been the same for a couple years.
    I lecture local high school students annually about the Bill of Rights, and criminal law.
    I always play that video in its entirety for my lecture series.
     
  7. Disabled Vet

    Disabled Vet Law Topic Starter Active Member

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    Thanks guys....

    It's a very, very long tail of events. The funny thing is that i have been wanting this ticket for years. Since 2006 as a matter of fact. I thought that i didn't need to follow up with this gentleman as he was given enough info that day. I wasn't going to give him my license at the start of our talking. Until I told him " If your going to give me a ticket for ATV/OHV use I will hand over my driver license." I don't want to say why i needed this ticket. Never know who is listening. But it was a needed item to continue a on going issue with them. I think he gave me the golden egg... I think this ticket is beatable, plus it will serve the purpose of what i needed it for. I was just wondering about being required to go back out there....... I think i will let him know that I will not be attending his meeting.

    Thanks
     
  8. Disabled Vet

    Disabled Vet Law Topic Starter Active Member

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    Well darn.... This officer called and told me he was voiding the ticket. I was like WHAT??? wait.. Why? No reason other then cutting me a break. Well... I told him i didn't need the break. To keep this ticket going. He stated no.. I also asked him to email the info stating they were voiding this ticket. I gave him my info about two weeks ago. I also spoke with his boss. Neither one of them has emailed me the info about voiding the ticket. I also called the 1-800 listed on the ticket. They have no record of the ticket yet either. I told the officer that issued the ticket. If it's a matter that i didn't have my ATV/OHV with me that day. That i would be happy to bring out my ATV/OHV so that he could see it on the trail. He stated he would talk it over with his boss. His boss called me... This call was going great... I thought great, someone that will listen to reason. Until he brings up me asking the officer to meet him out there with my ATV/OHV. Stating that they don't do that because it could be a ambush set up. That is when i thought..... wait..... is that what the officer was going to do when he wanted me to meet him out there?? Was he going to shoot me, then place a gun on me? hmmm... Of course he starts saying... No he wouldn't have did that.... he then stated If you did ambush us, I want you to know that you wouldn't be happy with the outcome. I was like... Was that a threat?? Anyway... I told him " You do remember me tellling you that i record every call i make" That is when he started back stroking... So I will follow up with the issuing officer today. To see where the email stating that it was dropped....
     
  9. ElleMD

    ElleMD Well-Known Member

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    Why on earth would you want a ticket? If you think it will lead to some sort of judge saying you are allowed to use your ATV on the trail or that the trail but be maintained so branches don't brush your car you are very much mistaken.
     
  10. Highwayman

    Highwayman Well-Known Member

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    I think you need to grow up and forget about it already. And stop breaking the law by using your ATV on the trail.
     
  11. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Please be very careful.
    You are treading a very dangerous path, my friend.
    If I were you, I'd stop rattling the cage of a very dangerous beast, because certain people are paranoid and see danger everywhere.
    Stop, forget it, enjoy your life.
     
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  12. Disabled Vet

    Disabled Vet Law Topic Starter Active Member

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    ElleMD,

    So wrong.... You see any NATIONAL forest operates on a forest plan. This plan is only updated every 10-15 years. The guideline for clearing of the roadway is already in the forest plan. Which they have failed to maintain. Back in 2006... They did over 60,000 dollars worth of maintenance to this roadway. The reason it was so much because they failed to do any yearly work to the area. It had been a disabled hunting trail for 9+ years. Is it the fault of the disabled hunter? Disabled people are asking for fairness... that's all. Nothing more. Just because they are not able to walk doesn't mean they should be excluded from doing things. Just because they are disabled doesn't mean they should destroy their trucks. The people running the show are all "NEW" folks. The 2006 crew have all left..... back then they also thought at the start " We don't have to do this or that " In the end... they learned " Yes we do " So sadly we have to train this new crew.

    As far as the use of the ATV/OHV... The forest plan states... a ATV/OHV is a vehicle less then 50" wide. Off road vehicle not licensed for use on a public road. The area i am talking about allows the use of ATV/OHV on the roadways in the county. So... elimates the Off road use... since they can be used on the road ways. Next... Less then 50" wide.. My OHV is 85+ inches wide... So the ATV/OHV classification set forth in their rules doesn't apply. That is what i wanted a judge to rule on. Based off their own rules my atv/ohv doesn't fall into their own guidelines. then it would allow for the use of it.

    Sadly, only Army Judge didn't attempt to issue the "LAW" to my post. His answer was simple. Becareful of these people. Sadly.... People that don't live with a disability daily don't have a clue. How something as simple as going to the bathroom turns into a big task. Disabled Hunters that use this trail are NOT asking for much. Instead of destroying their trucks. Allow them to use their ATV/OHV on the trail instead. Maybe they should take all disabled people and cast us onto a Island. Maybe that would be better.
     
  13. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    If you want a ticket that bad why not just take your ATV there and ride around illegally until you get cited.

    Then you can tilt at windmills to your heart's content.

    Meantime, you're being an idiot.
     
  14. Disabled Vet

    Disabled Vet Law Topic Starter Active Member

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    There is NO reason for name calling.

    Again..... I have... I have called them several times while i was out there. I have been out there when forest service personal were there.
     
  15. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    If they won't cite you when you are operating your ATV illegally, then stop kicking the dead horse.
     
  16. ElleMD

    ElleMD Well-Known Member

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    IF they are not upholding some aspect of the forest plan or violate ADA or whatever it is you think they are doing, there is a mechanism for that. You getting a ticket is not going to change anything. The sole issue will be whether you did what you received a ticket for or not. That's it. The judge is not going to get into what should have happened in 2006 nor do they have the authority to compel the rangers or whomever to maintain the trail. They do not have jurisdiction.
     

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