Other Criminal Charges & Offenses My fiance is committing loan fraud and I'm about to turn him in...

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I need to talk to a criminal defense attorney. That's true.

Sorry that I was off base. Honestly, I am still coming out of denial.

I am glad that everyone here has agreed I need to report. I will have tremendous guilt.

Highwayman said:
Somehow I don't think she's looking for that... o_O
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charliejoe09 said:
Yes, and that is what has him so upset. He wants me to do as he says. The fact that I told him that I was worried about that being unethical -- he said he was very suspicious of my motives and wondered if I was trying to frame him.

I said frame you? You are asking me to do something that I don't want to do. And I'm not doing it -- how is that framing you?

In a seperate argument on a completely different issue --he threatened to "ruin me" if I left him...

So, I am wondering what to do. If I act like everything is ok -- and quietly go to a lawyer - and report him and THEN leave -- I risk he finds out. He is very jealous and tracks most of my moves.

If I leave and THEN report him -- he will try retaliation in some form or fashion. I know he will try to cause me problems.. if he feels that I'm reporting him.

How would you do this? That's why I am so worried... I need to be very careful with how I do this...and when.

The car is in HIS name - - he has told me before during arguments that he COULD report it stolen -- but he doesn't because "he would never hurt me". Then why say it?

He knew about another issue I had with my ex husband. I confided in him. It's settled now, but about a year ago during an argument he threatened to report me and my ex. It was NOTHING like this --- and he threatened to do that..
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You have him, and you know where the dead bodies are buried.

I'd slip quietly away, taking only a few of my possessions.

Screw some car, if you value your freedom and your life.

I'd go to the nearest police station, FBI office, or US Attorney's office.

I'd also take along any proof I have or can quickly gather.

I'd spill my guts about his crimes, schemes, shams, cons, and dealings.

To assure I got the best deal, I'd retain a criminal defense attorney to get me immunity, and my placement in the witness protection program.

Ignore the threats of an old, toothless tiger who can only growl, but no longer bites.

Whatever you might have done with some dude years ago, no one cares, but the old, toothless tiger.

Or, you can let a toothless tiger with broken claws control you.
 
Is this really something worthy of the witness protection program? This sounds like something out of a movie.

Won't they think I'm crazy if that's what I suggest?

And is that really required in this situation?
 
He could try to report the car stolen, but police wouldn't take the report. People try that all the time. It doesn't fly.

You are still asking what to do but you've been told repeatedly already to contact an attorney. All of your questions and concerns can be addressed with the attorney's help. The attorney can help you get him out of the home if there are grounds to do so, can help you with the vehicle situation, can help you contact law enforcement, and most of all can help determine if you have any kind of liability in any way for the fraud that has taken place. You probably don't.... but it seems the possibility is there. You won't want to risk implicating yourself in anything and an attorney can help you avoid that.

What to do:
1. Visit the office of a criminal defense attorney and share the whole story. Don't email or call... GO TO THE OFFICE. You'll figure out step 2 from there.
 
charliejoe09 said:
Is this really something worthy of the witness protection program? This sounds like something out of a movie.

Won't they think I'm crazy if that's what I suggest?

And is that really required in this situation?
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You are the one expressing fears for what he may do if he finds out. Witness protection cones in many forms. It does not mean you get a new identity and move away to some unknown town in Nebraska. It means you get protection from those who might do you harm. There are much simpler ways to handle someone like your fiance.
 
I know you will think this is crazy, but it's the truth.

We share our location on the iPhone because he is uber jealous. I will call an attorney, but I will need to explain this.

I can't get caught going to his/her office about this.

Then it comes down to which comes first. Ghe chicken or ghe egg.


mightymoose said:
He could try to report the car stolen, but police wouldn't take the report. People try that all the time. It doesn't fly.

You are still asking what to do but you've been told repeatedly already to contact an attorney. All of your questions and concerns can be addressed with the attorney's help. The attorney can help you get him out of the home if there are grounds to do so, can help you with the vehicle situation, can help you contact law enforcement, and most of all can help determine if you have any kind of liability in any way for the fraud that has taken place. You probably don't.... but it seems the possibility is there. You won't want to risk implicating yourself in anything and an attorney can help you avoid that.

What to do:
1. Visit the office of a criminal defense attorney and share the whole story. Don't email or call... GO TO THE OFFICE. You'll figure out step 2 from there.
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I know you will
 
I called an attorney this morning -- and he said he would meet with me, but felt it wasn't really necessary. Said it's my fiance who needs a criminal defense attorney at this point.

He told me if I wanted to report it -- I can ... but there's not much he can do for me -- since it doesn't sound like i've done anything -- and he doesn't think the bank will really find out about this ...especially since my fiance is still paying the loan back. He said it would be like a needle in a haystack.

Maybe I just got a bad attorney? I have calls in -- to 2 others...

mightymoose said:
Auto correct....

I meant to say an attorney can advise you best after personally going over everything with you.
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It doesn't hurt to talk to a few and get a consensus.
It may be that you don't have anything to worry about. You need to be able to discuss the details in person with someone in order to determine that.
The concern I have for you is that you have had knowledge of this fraud for a long time. If you have benefited from it in any way you could have some liability. You say your fiance has handled some of your finances, so there could be something there... maybe.
If the consensus is that you don't need legal counsel then feel free to contact law enforcement on your own. They can help you with any concerns you still have about personal safety.
 
I see this slightly differently, but we don't have the full story. Lying on a loan application is fraud, but it isn't clear if he had a job when he applied and lost it, or never had one. I can't imagine any bank not verifying employment for a $200K loan. Unless he also forged the verification, the bank was satisfied. This all also assumes that you know what he actually put on the loan application for the business you supposedly know nothing about and by the fiance who you allege didn't share financial information with you. Then, you have the fact that he is paying back the loan as scheduled. The whole reason for income verification and the like it to make sure the bank gets their money. They are getting their money.

It isn't clear where he is getting the money to buy things only to return them for cash. If he has the money to buy them in the first place, why go through the hassle of buying, then returning?

While it isn't clear whether or not there was criminal activity, but if there was, then you do have a problem in that you apparently knew all of this was happening and were complicit. You might not have financial liability for his debts, but it is going to be awfully difficult for you to argue that you had no idea what was going on until you coincidentally decided to end the relationship and report him. You might be able to wiggle your way out of it, but I would not expect to report it and not at the very least end up investigated yourself.

By all means, end the relationship. The car you reference is apparently his, in his name, so no, you can not take it. If you want to buy a car, buy a car. Talk to your bank or a dealership about a loan for a vehicle in your own name.
 
ElleMD said:
I see this slightly differently, but we don't have the full story. Lying on a loan application is fraud, but it isn't clear if he had a job when he applied and lost it, or never had one. I can't imagine any bank not verifying employment for a $200K loan. Unless he also forged the verification, the bank was satisfied. This all also assumes that you know what he actually put on the loan application for the business you supposedly know nothing about and by the fiance who you allege didn't share financial information with you. Then, you have the fact that he is paying back the loan as scheduled. The whole reason for income verification and the like it to make sure the bank gets their money. They are getting their money.

It isn't clear where he is getting the money to buy things only to return them for cash. If he has the money to buy them in the first place, why go through the hassle of buying, then returning?

While it isn't clear whether or not there was criminal activity, but if there was, then you do have a problem in that you apparently knew all of this was happening and were complicit. You might not have financial liability for his debts, but it is going to be awfully difficult for you to argue that you had no idea what was going on until you coincidentally decided to end the relationship and report him. You might be able to wiggle your way out of it, but I would not expect to report it and not at the very least end up investigated yourself.

By all means, end the relationship. The car you reference is apparently his, in his name, so no, you can not take it. If you want to buy a car, buy a car. Talk to your bank or a dealership about a loan for a vehicle in your own name.
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I'm very glad you posted.



So here is my truth. I talked to another attorney today and he wants a 15k retainer and says if I don't come forward, I could be in trouble too. HELP! Please read further!

First off - YES he lied on his original application. I never saw it. But he told me he did and he was scared that the bank would find him out. He lost his contract with 60 days notice and told the bank that he still had the salary for another 3 years. That part I found out after the fact — and I had no part in. I told him it was wrong, but he def didn't care. He provided them his last 2 weeks of paychecks... and they were TRULY his last 2 weeks. The bank had no idea.




Here is my part in this. Ugh.



He told me that loan was approved for 200k. He had to give receipts to the bank every time he needed to verify an expenditure. So if he bought 50k in medical supplies, he would send them the invoice and then they would reimburse him.



He said that he started buying computers on his credit card and then asking for the money. They would pay and he would return — and use the money for paying his employees or his overhead.



He asked me to do this for marketing. I'm a marketing company. I initially said no. He wanted me to invoice him for 12k. I said no I was uncomfortable. He told me he asked his banker and they were fine with it — since it was like a trust fund. He had the money available, he just had to draw upon it.



I did it. I gave him the invoice and then I got cold feet when he started demanding that I give him the money for this. He said I was INSANE to think he would really pay me money for my services. I recorded this phone call.



I emailed his banker who asked me for my account info — and told him that his client had changed his mind and no longer needed my services.



Then my fiancé called me livid. I recorded this. He said I made he look bad. That he is not doing anything wrong and that I should NEVER have embarrassed him to his banker and THAT looked suspicious.



He told me he thought that i was jeapordizing the relationship — if I didn't fulfill this. He said he asked the loan officer and he told him it was fine to do this — this way.



So I emailed the loan officer. I told him that I felt that my client was ambivilenant about this deal and I was worried about accepting the money. I asked IF he would be requesting the money back within my 30 day refund period — what would be protocol…refund to him or the bank.



The loan officer said i could refund him.



SO I did it. I have worried a lot about this. But I let it go.



Last week - he asked me to do this process again and that's what triggered me to write here.



The lawyer wants me to pay 15k in retainer to protect me — and have me turn him into authorities.



But is that necessary? would he ever be found out? Am I really in trouble? Did HE really do anything that bad? The lawyer wants money of course — so he says yes.



But do I need a 3rd and 4th opinion? I don't have 15k right now. And now I have to pay this to protect myself — and my fiancé may walk —with no charges — and I will look like the horrible person for turning him in?



SERIOUSLY — what would you do? I trust this sub…
 
charliejoe09 said:
But do I need a 3rd and 4th opinion? I don't have 15k right now. And now I have to pay this to protect myself — and my fiancé may walk —with no charges — and I will look like the horrible person for turning him in?



SERIOUSLY — what would you do? I trust this sub…
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Yes, talk to a few more attorneys.
You've only met with two, and right now it's a tie.

However, you can report this ANONYMOUSLY to a community crime tip line.

You can write a letter to the DA, naming names, dates, amounts, etc.., again ANONYMOUSLY.

I doubt very seriously that the dude will walk away unscathed.

He's committing a chain of serial financial crimes, many of them federal crimes.

With your latest revelation, you only implicate yourself deeper into this crime syndicate.

For all you know, the banker could be involved in this little crime escapade, too.

I'll say it again.

You can wait, do nothing, and hope the storm blows over.

You can wait until the FBI, FDIC, local police, or some other law enforcement agency comes looking for you with arrest and search warrants.

Would you rather be a witness or a criminal defendant?

Choose wisely while you still have a choice to make.
 
This is a time bomb. If you don't report it there is a good chance it will be found out later when he starts missing payments and things go sideways in all his ventures.
You have opportunity to get in front of it and be a cooperative witness, or to potentially be a suspect later.
Maybe it is never found out at all... but why risk it for his benefit?
Yes, it is a big deal. People go to prison for this.
Keep attorney shopping. Maybe you can find someone more affordable, but at least you can get a better consensus on your situation.
You have definitely implicated yourself in at least one act of fraud, so you do need legal counsel.
 
That's where I get off kilter. The what ifs... what if i am causing him further pain and harm... what if this would never come out and I am causing this.

This forum is helping me stay in reality and out of denial, so thank you.

My denial voice says ...ahhhh just stop this. Stay with him and most likely no one will ever noticed this. You are about to pay 15k to turn him in, endanger yourself and waste money.

He has already said that he thinks I am always looking for ways to hurt him. But hasn't he hurt himself and me in this situation?

My reality voice says holy crap: you are in serious trouble. You need to figure this out ...asap.
 
So, here is my update. I met with another lawyer. He is 5k retainer. He is most concerned because the transfer of money went to my fiancé's personal account instead of his business account. Again, that's just the biggest of his concerns.

Like many here, the lawyer says it's possible this issue would never come out. But the risk is it will.

So, I brought this up at dinner with my fiancé and told him I was concerned what my accountant might say when she sees this transfer of money directly to him.

He said he was very concerned about what I was insinuating and that he felt I was creating a story and was trying to hurt him. He said he was very scared of me and that my bringing this up was very terrifying to him.

He then said that I need to realize If someone comes after him with a knife he will respond with a machete.

He said he did nothing wrong. The bank allowed him to return things and take the cash and essentially I'm on a witch hunt.

I talked to the lawyer and he is adamant that this treatment is not normal and I need to figure out if I have the strength to move forward and leave him.

Turning him in...won't be pretty. It hurts. He has kids too. We have been together through a lot.

What would you do? I know I need to be strong. But it's hard. Need courage.
 
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