Looking for a good & honest German lawyer.
- Thread Starter tnh8888
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What did you pay for the item? Before you even contact a lawyer, you'll probably want to check into whether the person you're dealing with is the right person. Frequently eBay scams are the result of a scammer who seizes control of a legitimate user's account and then uses it to commit the fraud. In addition, you may want to consider the cost of the litigation versus the cost of the item. If it's worth, e.g. 1000 euros then could you expect a lawyer to take your case, file it, and do the work for a contingency fee which might be only 300 euros? If it's a larger item you may want to pursue this route but you still may be throwing more money out after bad. If you want a recommendation for a lawyer you'll also need to specify a city as Germany is a big country.
Best of luck to you and sorry to hear about the scam.
muggsyj
New Member
This is not Legal Advice!
How did you pay?
How did you pay?
muggsyj
New Member
Hi Olivia,
The first instant, is to let the seller know you have not received the goods. If the seller is adamant they have sent the goods, then ask for the tracking number so you can contact the carrier to ask were the goods are. Sometimes things can take a very long time to arrive because they have to clear customs. It is a shame you sent a bank transfer because it is hard to retrieve your money back where things go wrong, but you could contact your bank and tell them you sent money for goods which you have not received and ask them if there is anyway you can get your money back. You are not in a very good situation here because you have trusted a seller and it seems at this point they have let you down. You can also contact ebay customer services as they can be quite helpful in situations like this. I think you will be wasting money and time with a lawyer and should exhaust every other option first before you take this route.
Good Luck
Mark
The first instant, is to let the seller know you have not received the goods. If the seller is adamant they have sent the goods, then ask for the tracking number so you can contact the carrier to ask were the goods are. Sometimes things can take a very long time to arrive because they have to clear customs. It is a shame you sent a bank transfer because it is hard to retrieve your money back where things go wrong, but you could contact your bank and tell them you sent money for goods which you have not received and ask them if there is anyway you can get your money back. You are not in a very good situation here because you have trusted a seller and it seems at this point they have let you down. You can also contact ebay customer services as they can be quite helpful in situations like this. I think you will be wasting money and time with a lawyer and should exhaust every other option first before you take this route.
Good Luck
Mark
Hi Mark,
Thank you for your message....
I exhausted all of the options you mentioned ie.
* contacted the seller,
* asked for tracking number (no tracking number given),
* contacted my bank to see if I can "reverse" the bank transfer (no I can not),
* raised a dispute in ebay and contacted ebay via phone calls and emails (it was a waste of time). In one of my phone conversations with ebay cust. reps. I was informed that no action will be taken with the seller, the seller can continue trading as normal because "everyone makes mistakes". One of the ebay cust. rep. was trying very hard to get me to understand the situation said this "we (ebay) provide an escort service and what ever happened between the escort and the client is non of ebay's business".
Again, thank you for your help.
Best regards,
Olivia.
Thank you for your message....
I exhausted all of the options you mentioned ie.
* contacted the seller,
* asked for tracking number (no tracking number given),
* contacted my bank to see if I can "reverse" the bank transfer (no I can not),
* raised a dispute in ebay and contacted ebay via phone calls and emails (it was a waste of time). In one of my phone conversations with ebay cust. reps. I was informed that no action will be taken with the seller, the seller can continue trading as normal because "everyone makes mistakes". One of the ebay cust. rep. was trying very hard to get me to understand the situation said this "we (ebay) provide an escort service and what ever happened between the escort and the client is non of ebay's business".
Again, thank you for your help.
Best regards,
Olivia.
Can you explain a little bit more about your discussion with ebay - e.g. "everyone makes mistakes?" This doesn't sound like a mistake but a clear cut case of fraud. Did the seller state that the seller sent the item or not? My general feeling from what you are telling me is that the seller claims they sent the item but you don't believe the seller.
The big mistake unfortunately - never, ever send cash. I have never done this nor will I. I've never understood why people think that it's wise to spend more than a few dollars on an ebay transaction and just rely upon trust. The seller's ratings guide is written by people whom nobody knows for sure. I know it hurts and doesn't help to hear this but you need to acknowledge the problem because eBay isn't going to help in this instance - especially if there was no insistence of a verifiable method of shipment with tracking. If that was part of the auction then you need to point out to eBay it's terms of use and violations by this user of their terms of use. I'd still want to hear more about the details of the auction and why eBay said they wouldn't even contact/investigate/take action regarding the user whom you are complaining about.
The big mistake unfortunately - never, ever send cash. I have never done this nor will I. I've never understood why people think that it's wise to spend more than a few dollars on an ebay transaction and just rely upon trust. The seller's ratings guide is written by people whom nobody knows for sure. I know it hurts and doesn't help to hear this but you need to acknowledge the problem because eBay isn't going to help in this instance - especially if there was no insistence of a verifiable method of shipment with tracking. If that was part of the auction then you need to point out to eBay it's terms of use and violations by this user of their terms of use. I'd still want to hear more about the details of the auction and why eBay said they wouldn't even contact/investigate/take action regarding the user whom you are complaining about.
Hi thelawprofessor,
My only defence for sending cash to the seller is, I saw the item and fell in love with it and.....love is blind...so, my alarm didn't go off when the seller stated that they only accept bank-to-bank transfer. Also, the seller's feedback was good so I didn't think twice about it. I guess at that time I didn't think anyone would scam someone for $2K but when this happened to me, I went on the net to do research and found that people get scammed for much less.
When emailed ebay about this problem I got this reply from Trust and Safety team "Thank you for your email. I am sorry to hear about your transaction. Our department will investigate and take appropriate actions on the account. I have also forwarded your report to my colleagues in Germany so they can investigate the matter as well. This is an internal investigation and we will not be able to provide you
with any details of the it due to our privacy policy....... "
I don't know what sort of investigation/action ebay took on the seller's account but not long after I got the reply, I saw the seller still happily auctioning away in ebay. I then rang ebay's Customer Support and question why this seller is still auctioning in ebay while a dispute is going on and thats when I was told "everyone makes mistakes" ie. ebay only take action if and when this seller scammed more buyers and in the meantime, business as usual for the seller.....
As for whether the seller actually sent the item or not I just don't know. The seller told me they sent it but when I ask for a tracking number they couldn't give me one. Right after that I got an email from the seller telling me there were problems with the paper work and the item have to be route back to Germany. I then requested for my money back and was told I'll get my money back when they get their vase back from customs. From my experience with this seller I'm sure in 2-3 weeks time I'll get an email saying that the vase was lost while on it's way back to Germany and that will be it. To sum it up, these past three months, all I got from the seller was excuse after excuses.
I think I should let this go and take it as an expensive lesson....
Many thanks for your help....
Best regards,
Olivia.
My only defence for sending cash to the seller is, I saw the item and fell in love with it and.....love is blind...so, my alarm didn't go off when the seller stated that they only accept bank-to-bank transfer. Also, the seller's feedback was good so I didn't think twice about it. I guess at that time I didn't think anyone would scam someone for $2K but when this happened to me, I went on the net to do research and found that people get scammed for much less.
When emailed ebay about this problem I got this reply from Trust and Safety team "Thank you for your email. I am sorry to hear about your transaction. Our department will investigate and take appropriate actions on the account. I have also forwarded your report to my colleagues in Germany so they can investigate the matter as well. This is an internal investigation and we will not be able to provide you
with any details of the it due to our privacy policy....... "
I don't know what sort of investigation/action ebay took on the seller's account but not long after I got the reply, I saw the seller still happily auctioning away in ebay. I then rang ebay's Customer Support and question why this seller is still auctioning in ebay while a dispute is going on and thats when I was told "everyone makes mistakes" ie. ebay only take action if and when this seller scammed more buyers and in the meantime, business as usual for the seller.....
As for whether the seller actually sent the item or not I just don't know. The seller told me they sent it but when I ask for a tracking number they couldn't give me one. Right after that I got an email from the seller telling me there were problems with the paper work and the item have to be route back to Germany. I then requested for my money back and was told I'll get my money back when they get their vase back from customs. From my experience with this seller I'm sure in 2-3 weeks time I'll get an email saying that the vase was lost while on it's way back to Germany and that will be it. To sum it up, these past three months, all I got from the seller was excuse after excuses.
I think I should let this go and take it as an expensive lesson....
Many thanks for your help....
Best regards,
Olivia.
Olivia -
I'm sorry to hear about this. Did you actually send eBay a follow up notice about your conversation where eBay purportedly made excuses for the seller? As I mentioned, you should actually WRITE an email - better a physical letter with a certified method of delivery - which explain your outrage over what you were told and the terms of use and safety that eBay purports to have in place. I might argue that eBay doesn't stand on the sidelines but they actively perpetuate fraud by not taking action against a seller that can't even show proof of dispatch, e.g. a common receipt, even if the item wasn't sent via a certifiable method. What postal carrier did this seller use? What day was it sent? Where is all the "paperwork" that the seller purports to be dealing with? If none of it is supplied, then there is little doubt that the seller is a fraud.
One thought - I'm not sure whether Germany has the equivalent of a small claims court but most places do. You may be able to file online or, perhaps you can find a friend or someone willing to help you in the county of the seller. Stranger things have happened and I've seen people willing to do amazing acts of kindness for people in your shoes, and this isn't such a difficult task.
Unfortunately eBay will not help you get your money back. You may want to put in a report with the police in the seller's area and you can notify the seller that it is what you are going to do. In New York a man was recently arrested for selling $65,000 of merchandise that didn't exist in a similar scam. While it may not get you your money back, at least it may give you peace of mind and also the satisfaction that you'll help prevent this scamster from doing the same to other people. Best of luck to you.
I'm sorry to hear about this. Did you actually send eBay a follow up notice about your conversation where eBay purportedly made excuses for the seller? As I mentioned, you should actually WRITE an email - better a physical letter with a certified method of delivery - which explain your outrage over what you were told and the terms of use and safety that eBay purports to have in place. I might argue that eBay doesn't stand on the sidelines but they actively perpetuate fraud by not taking action against a seller that can't even show proof of dispatch, e.g. a common receipt, even if the item wasn't sent via a certifiable method. What postal carrier did this seller use? What day was it sent? Where is all the "paperwork" that the seller purports to be dealing with? If none of it is supplied, then there is little doubt that the seller is a fraud.
One thought - I'm not sure whether Germany has the equivalent of a small claims court but most places do. You may be able to file online or, perhaps you can find a friend or someone willing to help you in the county of the seller. Stranger things have happened and I've seen people willing to do amazing acts of kindness for people in your shoes, and this isn't such a difficult task.
Unfortunately eBay will not help you get your money back. You may want to put in a report with the police in the seller's area and you can notify the seller that it is what you are going to do. In New York a man was recently arrested for selling $65,000 of merchandise that didn't exist in a similar scam. While it may not get you your money back, at least it may give you peace of mind and also the satisfaction that you'll help prevent this scamster from doing the same to other people. Best of luck to you.
muggsyj
New Member
This is not Legal Advice!
It is called a Mahnverfahren.
You need to buy the claims form called "Antrag auf Erlass eines Mahnbescheids" most news agents have them (-or alternatively try Karstadt/Kaufhof's office supplies section). Make sure to keep the receipt as you'll be able to add the costs to your claim! The form itselft isn't necessarily self-explanatory.
That's the word on the street!
Good Luck.
It is called a Mahnverfahren.
You need to buy the claims form called "Antrag auf Erlass eines Mahnbescheids" most news agents have them (-or alternatively try Karstadt/Kaufhof's office supplies section). Make sure to keep the receipt as you'll be able to add the costs to your claim! The form itselft isn't necessarily self-explanatory.
That's the word on the street!
Good Luck.
I'm back to thank you all for helping and to let you know I finally got my money back. I went through a German lawyer who's also a debt collector. If you are ever in a similar situation to me, do give "Langner Law Offices" a try (information on this law firm can be googled easily). After I contacted this lawyer, my case was resolved within 2 weeks. I hope I'm not breaking forum's rule by posting the name of this law office and I'm not getting paid for saying all of the above.
Olivia.
Olivia.
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