Arrest, Search, Seizure, Warrant Legal or Illegal Search?

[vortex360]

Some teenagers were shooed away by me after littering on my yard. They came back with several people who came to my front door and started banging on it very hard. I immediately called 911 and told them some unknown individuals were at my door banging on it very hard. I peered out my peep hole on my front door to see 5 or six individuals walking back to one of about 5 vehicles that were outside my house. I retrieved my shotgun from my closet and resumed to peer out the peephole at the individuals outside my house. The whole time I was on the phone with the 911 dispatcher. As I continued to peer out the the peephole, the same party of people with an additional two individuals started to come back to my front door. As soon as the were on my front doorstep, I threw open the door and told them to get the Hell off of my property. At the time I was holding the gun at my side and it was not pointed at anybody. The screen door was closed the whole time. These individuals evedently saw the weapon and decided to vacate my property to a mass of people that they had assembled in the street through the use of cellphones that they had. I complained to the dispatcher that the police were still not there and they assured me that they were close by and would soon be there. I went back and put my weapon back in the closet. Soon after I saw a police car and advised the dispatcher that I would be going out to meet them. I went outside unarmed when an officer pointed his weapon at me and advised me to put my hands up and turn around. I did as asked and was handcuffed with my hands behind my back. The officer said, "where is your gun?", at which time I told him it was in my house. He told me to show him where it was and I was lead handcuffed into my house. I was able to throw the lightswitch in the hallway to light the area where my closet is. I told the officer it was in the closet, and with that said he opened the door and retieved my weapon. It was after all of this that I was read my rights and voluntarily gave a statement truthfully stating that what had happened. I was arrested for intimidation after the mob of some 20 people, at least one of them had a baseball bat, had told the officers lies that I had come out of the house with the weapon and that I had chased the teens who had littered down the street with the gun. I believe that the officers who did the investigation should have taken the time to aquire a warrant to search the house prior to going in and retrieving it. Am I correct in this assumption?

 

[CdwJava]

No, you are not correct in your assumption. There are a number of reasons why they had sufficient cause to retrieve the weapon from the closet, not the least of which was that you did not deny them access. Had you denied them entry, they could still have articulated sufficient cause to seize the weapon. However, your un-named state's laws may restrict the officers more than the federal standard.

Consult a local attorney to determine your best course of action.

On a side note, if you are telling the truth in the matter, why would all these kids park in front of your house and decide to come confront you in such a mob? It just seems odd to select you at random, call their friends, and have everyone gather at your house. Was there something that happened BEFORE the incident on your porch?

- Carl

 

[vortex360]

No, you are not correct in your assumption. There are a number of reasons why they had sufficient cause to retrieve the weapon from the closet, not the least of which was that you did not deny them access. Had you denied them entry, they could still have articulated sufficient cause to seize the weapon. However, your un-named state's laws may restrict the officers more than the federal standard.

Consult a local attorney to determine your best course of action.

On a side note, if you are telling the truth in the matter, why would all these kids park in front of your house and decide to come confront you in such a mob? It just seems odd to select you at random, call their friends, and have everyone gather at your house. Was there something that happened BEFORE the incident on your porch?

- Carl

I've got no reason not to tell the truth, especially in a forumn such as this. Just because I did not deny them entry means nothing because I never consented to give them entry. My original post clearly states that they asked me where it was, and then I was lead into my own house handcuffed and they retrieved the weapon from the closet. Why would these kids and adults come and confront me on my porch? They gave statements to the police that they did. It clearly states in my original post that the kids were shooed away as the litterbugs they are. I can not explain why these public housing low-lifes do what they do, dress the way they do, or cause problems and shootings in neighborhoods they don't even live in. Perhaps it is the way their "parent" brought them up, one can only imagine. I live in Indiana, and I've shelled out two thousand dollars to an attorney who should have no problem making these people appear as exactly what they are, liars. People are the victims of random violence and vandalism all of the time, it is a known fact. These degenerates don't need a reason to do what they do, they just enjoy it and that is enough for them. Just because 20 people come to the police and say, "he has marijuana and other drugs in his house" does not give the police probable cause to come into one's house and search it without a warrant. With a firearm, the police or a member of the public has to be in immediate danger. In this case, the police saw no weapon and had the suspect in handcuffs outside of the residence unarmed. The reason they saw no weapon is because it never left the house, plain and simple. If you had made the effort to read the post accurately, then you would know all of these things that I have stated. Just comprehend that for one small second and you will know which way is up for once.

 

[CdwJava]

I've got no reason not to tell the truth, especially in a forumn such as this.

I never did say you weren't telling the truth.

Just because I did not deny them entry means nothing because I never consented to give them entry.

Your lack of an objection can be inferred as consent. Granted, that's arguable, but it can still be seen as consent.

Why would these kids and adults come and confront me on my porch? They gave statements to the police that they did. It clearly states in my original post that the kids were shooed away as the litterbugs they are.

In what manner did you tell these kids to beat it? I doubt they managed to gather a mob to storm your property because you asked them kindly to depart and to pick up their trash. And I can well imagine their version of events to the police is far different than yours.

I can not explain why these public housing low-lifes do what they do, dress the way they do, or cause problems and shootings in neighborhoods they don't even live in. Perhaps it is the way their "parent" brought them up, one can only imagine. I live in Indiana, and I've shelled out two thousand dollars to an attorney who should have no problem making these people appear as exactly what they are, liars. People are the victims of random violence and vandalism all of the time, it is a known fact. These degenerates don't need a reason to do what they do, they just enjoy it and that is enough for them.

Perhaps this attitude was conveyed to them during your first contact regarding the littering? That might have done something to exacerbate things unnecessarily.

Just because 20 people come to the police and say, "he has marijuana and other drugs in his house" does not give the police probable cause to come into one's house and search it without a warrant.

But that is not what happened.

With a firearm, the police or a member of the public has to be in immediate danger.

Not true.

In this case, the police saw no weapon and had the suspect in handcuffs outside of the residence unarmed. The reason they saw no weapon is because it never left the house, plain and simple. If you had made the effort to read the post accurately, then you would know all of these things that I have stated. Just comprehend that for one small second and you will know which way is up for once.

First, I read it just fine, thank you.

Second, I can cite a number of justifications as to why they would be lawfully allowed to enter and seize the weapon - including consent.

Perhaps you should ask your attorney about the suppression of the weapon since you seem to think that the search was unlawful. But, it sounds as if you are focusing on credibility of the other parties rather than suppressing the evidence.

By the way, it is not that I do not believe this happened to you, I just find it difficult to believe that if you asked them reasonably politely to leave that they woul dhave taken such offense. Even low-life thugs have better things to do then gather a mob to confront someone who simply asked them to leave.

The police in this instance have a rather unenviable job ... they have you claiming to be a victim of mob violence who narrowly averted tragedy by brandishing a firearm inside your residence ... and they have the mob with likely several people claiming you chased them or pointed it at them threatening to do them harm. In this case, sheer weight of numbers is likely to prevail. It might also have had something to do with attitude at the scene, too.

At this point there is always the possibility that the DA will decline to prosecute and will see it your way as self defense. Who knows?

- Carl

 

[vortex360]

I will admit that I could have been a little bit civiler when complaining about their littering. I have three witnesses that are not a part of the mob. One is a gentleman named Chuck up the street who these two ran to laughing complaning that there was this crazy white dude chasing them. Then there is a school custodian who witnesses the mob, at least one of whom had a baseball bat, and my neighbor behind me who was outside at the time and didn't see anyone that day chasing people down the street with a loaded shotgun. All the prosecution has is the mob, every one of whom came to the scene at the behest of others who were there with obvious hostile intent. If they can drag all of those people in to court that early in the morning, they are sure to dress and act like they always do, like street hoodlums. I can only hope that the truth will prevail, because I've already spent 5 days in jail for the lies that they told the police. Thank you for your response though because I appreciate it.

 

[Vortex360000]

Case Outcome

Case Outcome

Well folks, I am happy to post the outcome of my case here at thelaw.com. Unfortunately, I was banned from this site for unknown reasons and I had to reregister using a different username and utilize the use of a proxy and mac address changer in order to defeat the ban that was unreasonably placed on me. Well, the police are the ones who lied. The witnesses gave statements that indicated the total truth, that I did not leave my residence with a firearm. The sworn statements the police gave indicated the exact opposite. The two C felonies were reduced to A misdemeanors and the prosecutor even returned the shotgun! The 911 calls that the "victims" placed were made after they had arrived with an army at my house. It is unfortunate that the city of South Bend including mayor Luecke puts up with such officers. The city police here frequently get caught driving under the influence, shooting and killing unarmed suspects and even in one case, an officer was caught urinating at a busy intersection while drunk in his uniform right beside his marked cruiser. That is who the officers in South Bend are and one just has to put up with city services that are less than absolutely demeaning. But this time, the city was exposed and the corrupt officers they continue to allow to serve the city truly represent the "cities finest". I have included a couple Youtube links so that one may see the mob that was present that day and see one of the witnesses stating the truth in their taped statements. In the end I was found to have not threatened anyone with violence. And what a happy ending it has turned out to be since my attorney was diligent enough to force the prosecutor to turn over the exculpatory material after an attempt was made to withhold it from the defense.



Witness stating no weapon was seen outside the residence…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pyuoLW23CA



The mob…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liepkHd1h0s

 

[seniorjudge]

Thanks for the update.

 

[lwpat]

Yes, thanks for the update. Interesting story. Despite Carl's post I believe the search was illegal and the evidence of the gun could have been supressed. However, since you admitted to having the gun, it would not have mattered.