Shoplifting, Larceny, Robbery, Theft Items shipped to me

[tubby1000]

I ordered 2 scooters from the web located in iowa to pay the scooters by way of paypal via E-check payment,the payment failed and the company was notified of this but in there hast they shipped out the scooters to me, now they threaten me with contacting my local police department, for i asume theft by deception,can they? they sent the scooters its not my fault. they can have them but they surly will have to come and get them. What can they do to me when its not my fault,and i live in kentucky. I have contacted the atty general of my state about this but am waiting a response from him. Is this theft by deception on my part? In kentucky theft by deception of a check is a class d felony. What should i do?

 

[army judge]

It may not be theft by deception, but it surely is an NSF check.
What is the amount owed?
It most probably is some sort of felony.
And, yes, they can have you pursued for criminal charges.
You had better make arrangements to pay for those scooters, or return them.
Otherwise, the long arm of the law will reach out and snatch you!
They can't do anything to you, but Kentucky law enforcement officials can make your life miserable.
You're not in some remote part of the African continent, you're right here in the USA.

 

[tpajet]

It may be their fault that they sent them even though the payment was no good, but it now becomes theft in the fact that you are not willing to return the items even though you know that they are not paid for. As stated either pay up, return the scooters, or get ready for your arrest.

 

[tubby1000]

return them

As i stated they can have them but im not paying for there mistake,they can drive down and get em or any other way they want,im surly not hiding them. The accounting deptment admit they messed up and the lady in charge wants to save her rump i guess.

 

[army judge]

As i stated they can have them but im not paying for there mistake,they can drive down and get em or any other way they want,im surly not hiding them. The accounting deptment admit they messed up and the lady in charge wants to save her rump i guess.

Play with fire, you will get burned.
Dance with the devil, if you dare!

A check returned for NSF is considered theft by deception in Kentucky.

514.040 Theft by deception.
(1) A person is guilty of theft by deception when the person obtains property or services of another by deception with intent to deprive the person thereof. A person deceives when the person intentionally:
(a) Creates or reinforces a false impression, including false impressions as to law, value, intention, or other state of mind;
(b) Prevents another from acquiring information which would affect judgment of a transaction;
(c) Fails to correct a false impression which the deceiver previously created or reinforced or which the deceiver knows to be influencing another to whom the person stands in a fiduciary or confidential relationship;
(d) Fails to disclose a known lien, adverse claim, or other legal impediment to the enjoyment of property which the person transfers or encumbers in consideration for the property obtained, whether the impediment is or is not valid or is or is not a matter of official record; or
(e) Issues or passes a check or similar sight order for the payment of money, knowing that it will not be honored by the drawee.

(8) Theft by deception is a Class A misdemeanor unless the value of the property, service, or the amount of the check or sight order referred to in subsection (6) or (7) of this section is:
(a) Five hundred dollars ($500) or more but less than ten thousand dollars ($10,000), in which case it is a Class D felony; or
(b) Ten thousand dollars ($10,000) or more, in which case it is a Class C felony.

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/514-00/040.pdf

Should the debtor provide a creditor with a NSF check for a COD order, then that act does fall within the bad check laws.

Kentucky Up to $500 fine. One year in penitentiary for a misdemeanor. Felony punishable by imprisonment from one to five years and a fine of not more than $10,000, or double the offender's gain from commission of the crime, whichever is greater.

 

[tubby1000]

Krs 514.040

I have read this before thanks, but a few things remain,First it was not shipped COD nor was a paper check written out,and also i did not obtain property or services of another by deception because paypal notified them not to ship but they did anyway,And last they can have it,like i said they did the mistake why should i go to jail or pay for she shipping? I know if you write out a paper check in ky its theft,but my lord they were told by the paying company not to ship. I understand if they want to come to ky in the county i live in to sign a warrant with proof i commited a crime then ill worry more. Thanks for your input but ill wait till i hear from the kentucky atorny generals office and see what he says about this matter.maybe i can get him to send them a letter. I have no question that they should not get there stuff back but they pay for not me. I guess ill go to the local police department and tell them the story and see what they have to say. Again Thanks...

 

[mightymoose]

It is only theft by deception if the check was INTENTIONALLY passed with knowledge it would not pass.
From what you say here, the worst you have to worry about is penalties for passing a bad check.
If the company was not supposed to have sent the scooters when they did, then you can put the return shipping issue on them. It was their mistake. If you got someone to admit to that mistake and can prove it, then you should be good.

Just wondering though... if the check didn't clear, why not use another form of payment? That would settle everything. The fact that you did not quickly correct the check problem or offer another form of payment makes it look like you never had the funds in the first place... which can possibly be used against you for theft by deception.

 

[army judge]

Moose, the KY statute is very clear as to the meaning and intent of the statute. What has been done in this case forms a prima facie case of theft by deception. I'm sure the merchant will want their property back in lieu of payment, so there remains a way out of jeopardy, but the persistent recalcitrance will leave a prosecutor with little choice.


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[mightymoose]

I disagree. The language that you posted above clearly states that the person must intentionally pass the check knowing that it would not be honored. Simply having passed a bad check does not make it theft by deception.
Nothing given in the info here allows us to determine intent. The fact that the OP did not provide another form of payment implies that funds were not available in the first place, however the attempt to stop the transaction prior to shipping suggests there was no intent to deceive.
I see, at best, that the company may be able to make a civil claim against the OP regarding the bad check and costs of shipping, but there is nothing criminal here.

 

[army judge]

Follow the link...

Besides who has the goods?
Who thinks the shipper has to come and get the goods?

You know that merchants don't have to prove that funds exist when accepting a check.

Sure, some choose to verify, but the law does not require the merchant to do so.

Writing a check puts the burden of responsiblity on the writer.

Bottom line for me is, the story has holes.

The truth is never complicated to recite or understand.

This story has more holes than a screen.

It won't change our lives, though, will it?

Thanks for weighing in, I enjoy reading your opinions and thoughts.


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[mightymoose]

I certainly agree that the responsibility is on the writer of the check, but I disagree that it is a criminal matter unless there is information that suggests the check was made intentionally when it was known that there were insufficient funds to cover it.

The OP mentioned some error by the company- that they were not supposed to have shipped the scooters. If that is the case then the company can arrange to have the items returned by the same carrier.

It is also reasonable that the OP will be on the hook for return shipping.

 

[tubby1000]

Scooters

I have read the law of ky in this matter. If everyone would see for it to be a felony i would have to had written a check against the the people of the Commonwealth of ky Ky is a commonwealth state. The are no holes in my message. Fact they shipped without payment,They admitted to me it was there fault,I never intended to fraud them in anyway. I never canceled payment by way of paypal. If a crime was commited someone would have to go before a judge in the county i live and sign a warrant for my arrest,if the judge deems a crime has been commited. They can take me to small claims court for all monies owed plus legal fees in any case. I am talking to the people who shipped it to me and i have told them they can have them but not at my cost for there mistake.

 

[Proserpina]

Why don't you just pay for the goods?

 

[army judge]

Why don't you just pay for the goods?

I know those people on E-Bay.

He'll pay one way or another.

I hate E-Bay.

I'd never use that site for anything.

But, those sellers are sharks.

They'll hound you and get you prosecuted for 50 cents.

I defended a guy that was being prosecuted for a $10.00 debt.

He didn't take it seriously, until the law came looking for him.

I charged the guy $2,500 to get his case reduced to misdemeanor deferred.

He had a history of doing this.

That's why I know, this isn't someone's first rodeo, if you know what I mean!