I have to file a complaint (protection order) that includes an affidavit well over 100 pages. There is some sensitive information I do not want to include in the original document, including identifying information about parties that I'm not sure should be published, as well as tangential information that supports my allegations but detracts from the flow of the original petition. Am I allowed to include supplementary factual matter with my petition, or should I try to cram it all into the original document, which would put it at about 200 pages or so? My concern is that the judge might get frustrated having to switch from the original petition to the supplemental factual matter when reading...
Including supplementary factual matter with complaint...
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adjusterjack
Super Moderator
No, you don't attach 100-200 pages to your petition. You summarize your grounds for requesting the protective order on the petition page. Then, at your hearing, you TELL the judge why you want it. You'll probably have 5 to 15 minutes to do that. While you are talking you can hand him supporting documentation for the points you are trying to make.
But you don't hand him 100-200 pages and expect him to read it all. It's just not going to happen.
I suggest you practice TELLING the story in front of a mirror and time yourself so you can be prepared for court. You don't want to be fumbling for paperwork or tripping over your tongue while you are standing in front of the judge.
But you don't hand him 100-200 pages and expect him to read it all. It's just not going to happen.
I suggest you practice TELLING the story in front of a mirror and time yourself so you can be prepared for court. You don't want to be fumbling for paperwork or tripping over your tongue while you are standing in front of the judge.
army judge
Super Moderator
Ohio has two basic types of restraining orders: standard restraining orders and criminal protection orders (also known as CPOs).
A restraining order is issued by a domestic relations court and is used in cases of divorce or legal separation when one of the spouses has been abusive to the other one.
This type of order remains in effect until the divorce or legal separation is completed, at which point it terminates.
Such orders are not enforced by the police, however, and it is the responsibility of the protected spouse and their attorneys to notify the court that issued the order whenever the abusive spouse has violated the order.
Under Ohio law, domestic violence includes any assault or threat of harm from a family or household member in any of the following areas: physical, emotional, financial, and sexual.
Law enforcement must respond to and enforce criminal protection orders, however, which pertain to a broader number of cases in which abuse or cruelty have taken place.
A court can issue a CPO for unmarried intimate partners, relatives of the abuser, and relatives of the abuser's partner. In general, a CPO is preferable to a restraining order as it can cover a wider number of circumstances and law enforcement is legally required to enforce it.
For those who want the benefits of a restraining order too, however, such as the right to evict a partner, it is possible to get both orders at the same time.
CPOs can also apply to strangers, rather than just those that are partners or closely connected to a person or their family.
I have filed many of these orders over the years of my legal career, none approaching 100, much less 200 pages.
A 200 page isn't always need for a criminal appeal.
The brief doesn't tell your story, it is supposed to outline your story.
You might want to review what you've written and why you think it must be so long.
Most trial level judges (I have been one during my career) don't want to read 200 page pleadings.
I currently sit (occasionally) on the military court of appeal, and I rarely see a brief approaching 100 pages in that role.
Maybe this will help:
Ohio Protective Orders Laws - FindLaw
This:
Ohio Restraining Orders | WomensLaw.org
Perhaps this:
Thanks for the replies. The reason I think it needs to be so long is because I've seen so many cases dismissed for insufficient factual matter. I can prove my claims with all the factual matter, but this extends the complaint. I'm afraid if I make general allegations in the complaint without reference to detail they will not believe me, or dismiss my case and make me look bad.
adjusterjack
Super Moderator
Tell us a bit about your case if you want some helpful comments. It'll give you practice in front of unbiased observers who will pick it apart for you. We may be a little rough on you but when we are done you will have a good idea of what needs fixing before you go to court.
By the way, "factual matter" doesn't prove cases, "evidence" proves cases. Most people don't understand the difference.
By the way, "factual matter" doesn't prove cases, "evidence" proves cases. Most people don't understand the difference.
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zddoodah
Well-Known Member
This.
No judge is going to read "an affidavit well over 100 pages" in connection with a simple protective order petition. What you are allowed to do or should do is a procedural issue that obviously depends on the laws of your state, which you didn't identify.
It's a case of police harassment and stalking. They're retaliating to protect my university. I need to provide an abundance of factual matter to link the various snitches to the police and FBI. I have a ton of evidence as well, and can conclusively prove my claims. Trust me. It is now proven that abuse is occurring and that they are behind it. They are holding me captive on the welfare system and maintaining the looming threat of dumping me in a homeless shelter and never letting me recover (roughly murder). They are also making it impossible to work by conspiring with my landlord to harass me with threats of eviction, repeated entries into my apartment, baseless threats to cite me with housekeeping infractions, having building residents cause alarm outside my door, having people slam doors all day long to obstruct me when I try to labor on my protection order.
I realize judges are rough on these cases, and am prepared to ask any judge to recuse himself at one sign of prejudice. Rest assured, if I am given the time and a fair hearing, I will prove the government guilty (beyond a reasonable doubt for some offenses). I have video of me getting assaulted, tortured, and threatened by a domestic violence offender. I have voice recordings of him suggesting it is all because I pursued litigation against a sexual harasser. I have video of apartment residents harassing me deliberately, landlord writing me a baseless infraction, threatening eviction, repeatedly asking to enter my apartment, detaining me for days by claiming inspections will occur anywhere in an 8 day period, violating the covenant of habitability with overflowing sinks, etc.
This is just a small fraction of my evidence.
This is just a small fraction of my evidence.
I have a good summary in my introduction, that lays out the nuts and bolts of the complaint, provides some concrete details, and should be enough to convince them. If the judge wants to skim the longer affidavit, or wants to challenge my claims on insufficient factual matter, however, I guess I have to be prepared to provide all the details for his reference so I can say, "if you don't want to believe me, then you at least gotta read through all that first." They burdened me with 16 years of non-stop violent crime. Now I'm weighed down by needing to cite all 100+ pages of facts that 'emerge from the same cause or controversy' whenever I complain about what they're doing at whatever moment to mess my life up.
We all know the fruit of the poisonous tree, or exclusionary rule, barring use of criminally obtained evidence in criminal case. However, does this apply when the police have criminally obtained evidence and try to use it in a civil case? I have heard that it is legal for private citizens to use criminally obtained evidence in a civil trial, but that it is not lawful for police to do this. Is this true? Please confirm and provide reference if you can. Thanks.
Highwayman
Well-Known Member
Why would the police be involved in a civil matter??
Because I'm trying to get a protection order to stop harassment, and then I'm planning to sue them.
They harassed me under the guise of an entrapment investigation. It was a retaliatory extortion job intended to protect a police snitch that victimized me. They failed to entrap me on anything, but they did a whole bunch of damage trying to break me down and weaken me up to their extortion attempts, including victimizing me with a felonious assault. They've provided admissions in our encounters, but if I get them to confess to doing a covert operation on me, they'll likely change their strategy from a deny outright (whilst providing ample admissions of the offense) to a blame the victim to justify, as is typical whenever the police shoot someone with a gun no matter how guilty they are (analogy).
The point is -- they may try to cite criminally obtained evidence (they are not above conspiring with a community policing snitch to file a false report) in the civil case to try and justify their actions, protect their informants, and deny me the damage payment I deserve. I want to know my rights in this respect.
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adjusterjack
Super Moderator
Sorry, but your last 6 posts reveal that you have no idea about any of what you are doing. The chances of you getting a restraining order against a government agency are virtually non-existent.
I'm filing against a John Doe, not the agency itself. And I said a protection order. I submit the complaint, they send it to the organization. The agency identifies the culpable parties and the court grants the orders to do this or that. Makes sense to me. No one on Avvo contested my plan.
Do you think I don't know they send people on these boards to tamper with people? Lemme guess they tell someone to re-assert the fraud you tell me here and then claim 'told you so'? I've seen that trick before.
Why don't you tell me where I've erred. It really is an emergency. If I don't get protection the offense could result in my death. Just saying "you don't know what your talking about carries little meaning." Get specific.
Lake Stevens cop quits after woman gets protection order against him
Looks like you can get them against a single officer (a John Doe 1983 lawsuit for instance?). The courts allow for John Doe defendants. If I can link it to the agency and prove the agency guilty they should identify the culprits and order a cease and desist. Makes sense to me. Just trying to inflict distress?
Certainly you wouldn't dispute I could get an injunction against a government agency now would you? Why could I get an injunction but not a protection order? Why could you sue a John Doe cop under 1983 but not get a mere protection order. I know you gotta sue a person or whatever when it's a government organization at hand. The web says injunctions are part of the range of relief available in a protection order. Some parties at the organization are ordering violence to be done. I need these parties identified and an agreement arranged to get them to desist and provide some other relief as well.
The perp is not always known. If I can prove the perp is there then we can proceed to discovery? It's like proving a conspiracy. I don't need to see the conspiracy I just need to have enough factual matter and evidence to infer its existence.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41223.pdf
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mightymoose
Moderator
Nobody is going to read a your 100 page document. Don't waste your time.
If you do submit something that size you might defeat yourself with the impression you leave.
It seems to me you have chosen to fight a losing battle. If you really feel you have a bone to pick then hire legal counsel to do it for you. It will be done efficiently and much more concisely, giving you the best chance for success if success is even possible.
Continue in your current path and you will achieve nothing more than completely wasting your time and feeding your frustration.
If you do submit something that size you might defeat yourself with the impression you leave.
It seems to me you have chosen to fight a losing battle. If you really feel you have a bone to pick then hire legal counsel to do it for you. It will be done efficiently and much more concisely, giving you the best chance for success if success is even possible.
Continue in your current path and you will achieve nothing more than completely wasting your time and feeding your frustration.
Yeah, like people with civil rights violations spanning 16 years that necessitate 100+ pages don't have the right to protection under the law. Evidence loads for legal cases, and this has high profile potential, can range into the thousands and thousands of pages. Lawyers and the judicial system are used to that. I doubt any good faith judge will be alarmed.
Further, the filing fee for the case is $400 dollars. It that's the fee then it ain't oh expect to have 10 to 15 minutes to plead your case like the guy above said. This should take the same care as any civil suit, and should involve the level of time it necessitates to address all the issues. Remember my life liberty and property is on the line here. I'm entitled to trier de fact, the right to present all my evidence, the right to a fair and impartial tribunal, etc. If they fall short they violate my rights without due process. The judge can't just say -- you don't have the right to protection under the law cause your case is 100+ pages. Lemme guess, I shorten it then they cry insufficient factual matter?
You're tampering with me guys. Trying to feed me false information to help them push me over in the court.
They won't let me talk to a lawyer. They're tortiously interfering with my access to the legal profession. I'm being treated like I have fewer rights then Jeffry Dahmer and all I did was reject a sexual harasser and be better looking than most people I come across. The police are sex offenders and they going down.
And notice no one actually answered my question about evidence. But just sat there trying to plant seeds of doubt in my mind to obstruct me as a proceed towards my lawsuit.
There is no way I can lose if given a fair trial. It's abundantly clear on the surface that I have been deprived of life liberty property without due process and that the government did it.
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I hope you know all you guys that are talking nonsense are guilty of threatening my right to a fair trial. Reported to DOJ/FBI.
Any judge that tells me to shove it will be guilty of deprivation of rights under color. The offense would be complicity in a kidnapping. Because that's what my rights violation amounts to. Telling me to buzz off is not an option here. Absolute immunity will not apply in cases of public corruption and that the only way I could lose.
Obviously harassment here. I have not received one single constructive reply to my questions, only statements intended to intimidate and be blatantly destructive.
Any judge that tells me to shove it will be guilty of deprivation of rights under color. The offense would be complicity in a kidnapping. Because that's what my rights violation amounts to. Telling me to buzz off is not an option here. Absolute immunity will not apply in cases of public corruption and that the only way I could lose.
Obviously harassment here. I have not received one single constructive reply to my questions, only statements intended to intimidate and be blatantly destructive.
army judge
Super Moderator
Thread closed.
Don't open another one on this or a related issue.
Take your quarrel elsewhere.
Don't open another one on this or a related issue.
Take your quarrel elsewhere.
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