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In need of help, advice, guidance, support, representation Homicide, Murder, Manslaughter

Discussion in 'Criminal Charges' started by LaKosmia Walker, Jun 16, 2021.

  1. LaKosmia Walker

    LaKosmia Walker Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Hi, I'm not sure how transparent I can or cannot be. So bear with the limited details. I have a brother and sister (in law) whose been convicted of crimes that they are not guilty of. I have reasons to believe that my brother and sister were not given a fair chance to properly prove their innocence. Is there anyway that someone can help?
     
  2. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    What were they convicted of? Do they have an Attorney(s)? When were they convicted? Why do you believe they were not "given a fair chance to properly prove their innocence"? Were they represented by an attorney at the time?
     
  3. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    Were they convicted at a trial did they take a plea bargain? If they were convicted at trial, do you have evidence that they did not commit these crimes that was not presented at that trial? If that evidence is something other than a confession by you as the real perpetrator of these crimes then what you would do is contact their attorneys and provide them with the evidence you have.

    If, on the other hand, you are the actual person guilty of the crime, then you have a choice to make: do you want to do the moral thing and fess up to it to free your relatives? If you are willing to do that, then see a criminal defense attorney of your own to work out how to do that and minimize the potential sentence you'll receive.
     
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  4. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    No criminal defendant anywhere in this nation has ever (nor will one ever) been required to prove her/his innocence.

    That is NOT how our system functions.

    The state, on the other hand, has the BURDEN of proving a defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

    A criminal defendant is required to do nothing, say nothing, or even enter a plea in her/his defense.

    The defendant can simply stand MUTE, and the judge will enter a not guilty plea for the poor soul.

    If your relatives agreed to a plea deal, the deal was approved by the judge, the judge admonished the defendant in open court, the defendant being so admonished allocuted in open court about the crime(s), and the plea was formally accepted by the judge; that deal is all but bullet proof.

    Criminal appeals are a very specialized area of the law.

    MOST convictions are rarely overturned, but all convictions OUTSIDE a plea deal can certainly be appealed.

    I suggest whatever you do, DON'T discuss any aspect of your suspicions with your relatives over the telephone, via snail mail, via email, or even in person.

    ALL telephonic conversations with inmates are monitored and recorded, as are written communications, and email communications.
     
  5. LaKosmia Walker

    LaKosmia Walker Law Topic Starter New Member

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    They were convicted of child abuse, neglect, and murder. They do not have Attorneys. They were convicted in 2012. They were not given a fair chance to properly prove their innocence because there were opportunities for witnesses in the beginning of the trial that were taken away before being forced to choose a plea deal. There were evidence that was supposed to be used to help support their innocence. They also had children in the home (3, who are over the age of 18)who were improperly questioned and statements not included at the time.
     
  6. shadowbunny

    shadowbunny Member

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    I'm sure this has been distressing for all involved, but they were NOT forced to take a plea, they chose to take a plea. And in doing so, they freely admitted to a crime. I'm afraid that there is no option for appeal.
     
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  7. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    Did they allocute when they pled guilty?
     
  8. LaKosmia Walker

    LaKosmia Walker Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I do not believe they did
     
  9. LaKosmia Walker

    LaKosmia Walker Law Topic Starter New Member

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    My brother took a plea because he was told that he'd be able to be parole in 15yrs. He also was not aware that he was pleading to all the charges that's on his record.
     
  10. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    Those are very serious charges. And they certainly would have been entitled to public defenders if they could not afford to pay for their own defense. So while you say they don't have attorneys now, did they have attorneys at the time of the trial? If the answer is no, why didn't they?

    So the time for their automatic right to appeal is long gone.

    They weren't forced to take the plea deal. Instead, when a plea deal is entered into after a trial starts, it's generally because the defendant sees that an outright not guilty verdict is not very likely and that they risk being convicted on all or most of the charges if the trial continues. In short, the defendant feels pressure to make the deal when he/she sees the trial not going all that well. While the defendant may feel pressured to make that deal, ultimately it is his/her choice. No one can force a defendant to take a plea when he or she does not want to do so.

    The problem with challenging plea deals is that in accepting the plea the court should question the defendant to have the defendant agree to the facts of the crime, i.e. the defendant states that he/she did the acts that are charged as part of the plea and also questions the defendant to ensure that the defendant understands the consequences of the plea and that the plea is in fact voluntary. These statements by the defendant are known allocution, and when done correctly by the court these admissions by the defendant pretty must foreclose the possibility of challenging the conviction later on. There are a very few limited grounds on which a challenge later might be done, like a claim that the defendant had inadequate assistance of counsel and thus was not properly advised on the plea, but those are not easy to pull off.

    Since they took the plea deal, the shortcomings at the trial really don't matter because their convictions didn't come from the trial — it wasn't the jury that convicted them. So trying to raise trial issues now like witness and evidence problems are very unlikely to get them anywhere.

    If you want to help them get a shot at challenging this now, help them pay an attorney who does post conviction relief to see if there is any realistic chance to challenge it now. Chances are there isn't anything to be done at this stage, but the only way to truly know is to have everything reviewed by an attorney in their state who does post conviction relief cases.
     
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  11. LaKosmia Walker

    LaKosmia Walker Law Topic Starter New Member

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    (If, on the other hand, you are the actual person guilty of the crime, then you have a choice to make: do you want to do the moral thing and fess up to it to free your relatives? If you are willing to do that, then see a criminal defense attorney of your own to work out how to do that and minimize the potential sentence you'll receive.) THAT IS NOT THE CASE!!! However, My brother took the plea, his wife took it to trial and was found guilty. There were 6 children (2 of whom were placed in their care after the birth mom passed away) in the home. 1 of the children passed away. The blame was placed on just my brother and his wife.
     
  12. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    At the time of the plea, the judge almost certainly read out at the hearing all the charges that your brother was agreeing to in the deal before accepting the plea. So if your brother didn't agree to all those charges being included, that would have been the time for him to say "whoa, wait a minute, that isn't what I agreed to". If he heard the charges and stayed silent, that's on him.

    Again, he ought to have an attorney who does post conviction relief look at this. One of things the attorney would do is review the transcript of the plea hearing to see if the judge did all the things that the judge is supposed to do, like ensuring the defendant understands to what charges he's pleading guilty.
     
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  13. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    Who else would have been responsible and how would that person's involvement relieve them of the responsibility for what happened to the kids? Parents have the primary responsibility for the care of their kids. When their kids are injured or die from abuse or neglect, how are they not responsible for that? That's important because that's the kind of thought process a jury will have too.
     
  14. LaKosmia Walker

    LaKosmia Walker Law Topic Starter New Member

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    All that you've stated is agreed and all that you've questioned can be proven.
     
  15. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    What is the proof and why wasn't it allowed to be submitted into evidence?

    Let me ask...why are you so sure that they didn't abuse/neglect/murder the child(ren)? Were you there when the child(ren) died?
     
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  16. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Let's slow this roll a bit. Your brother FREELY ADMITTED that he did the things of which he was accused. That's about all she wrote.
     
  17. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    I have to ask LaKosmia, were you at the trial and if not where are you getting the story of what happened?

    I ask this because I find it very unusual for a murder defendant, much less two, to stand trial without a lawyer(s) and that you don't think your brother was not required to allocate in order to plead guilty and take the pleas deal.
     

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