Assault & Battery How to we prove the BB gun isn't ours?

[army judge]

Thanks for the suggestion. My attorney thought this was a good idea coupled with dusting for prints. Either way he said we don't need to prove the BB gun isn't ours, we need to ask the prosecutor to prove that it is ours using the DNA swabbing and/or dusting for prints. All we need is a little doubt after all. And fortunately my brother does have the BB gun's original sales receipt since it was purchased on Amazon. Very helpful!

Fingerprints are yesterday, in most situations.

DNA is today's fingerprints.

That said, if her DNA isn't on that item, I don't understand how any jury could convict her.

That said, did this event transpire in DuPage County, specifically Naperville?
I have a very specific reason for asking.

If it took place in another community, which one?

 

[Markleathe]

"She was cleaning the house and found my BB gun pistol which she took out onto our balcony to see if she could hide it from me because she was tired of me leaving it laying around."

Do you have a storage closet or something on your balcony? Why would she think that was the best place to hide it from you? Did she change her mind and put it in the closet in the bedroom? It is very odd how it ended up from the balcony to the bedroom closet.

" Personally I think that the situation and corresponding police report might have been embellished slightly to save the officers the embarrassment of such a strong reaction for a BB gun."

Except that is not what they responded to. The call they got very likely did not say "BB gun." They likely were told that someone had a weapon out on a balcony and was aiming it at people. So that's why they reacted the way they did.

While it may be valuable to highlight certain parts of a story under some circumstances to gain a better understanding of what happened, this is not one of those circumstances. You are highlighting things that have no actual bearing on the question about proving the BB gun isn't ours. But since you probably won't be able to sleep tonight if I don't tell you, here it is: There was a closet on the balcony that contained our water heater, that is where my wife intended to hide my BB gun. She didn't know it was locked because she had never tried to open if before (she was looking for a place I wouldn't look). Since the door was locked she instead put it under a pile of clothes in the closet.

As to the response of the police force, where do I begin. I heard the story that unfolded at our apartment complex the day after the incident: The single unit that responded was met almost immediately by apartment maintenance (it was a good area). The maintenance worker they met knew us personally and told the officer we were good people (I'm an former missionary and minister) and that it was likely a misunderstanding. He offered to knock on our door, the offer was refused. So he went and got my sister, who he also knew, and brought her to talk to the officer (still only one unit at that point). She told him that she knows for a fact that we have no guns in our home and that this is a definitely a misunderstanding, of course offering to knock in the process, he ignored her and called in the Calvary. They could have done so much to deescalate the situation, but they didn't. And even after it was clear that it was a misunderstanding, they still arrested my wife, also a former missionary. Do you see why I think we are being treated unfairly?

 

[Markleathe]

Fingerprints are yesterday, in most situations.

DNA is today's fingerprints.

That said, if her DNA isn't on that item, I don't understand how any jury could convict her.

That said, did this event transpire in DuPage County, specifically Naperville?
I have a very specific reason for asking.

If it took place in another community, which one?

We moved to Naperville after the incident. We were living in Bloomingdale in Dupage county at the time this all transpired.

 

[army judge]

We moved to Naperville after the incident. We were living in Bloomingdale in Dupage county at the time this all transpired.

I asked because I know the justice system, a few lawyers (I went to law school with a guy who has become a very prominent criminal attorney in DuPage and Cook), a few judges, and a sheriff (or two) in DuPage.

Bloomingdale PD hasn't acquired a reputation as an overly aggressive PD, but these days everything and everyone seems to have gone whacko. LOL

 

[leslie82]

While it may be valuable to highlight certain parts of a story under some circumstances to gain a better understanding of what happened, this is not one of those circumstances. You are highlighting things that have no actual bearing on the question about proving the BB gun isn't ours. But since you probably won't be able to sleep tonight if I don't tell you, here it is: There was a closet on the balcony that contained our water heater, that is where my wife intended to hide my BB gun. She didn't know it was locked because she had never tried to open if before (she was looking for a place I wouldn't look). Since the door was locked she instead put it under a pile of clothes in the closet.

As to the response of the police force, where do I begin. I heard the story that unfolded at our apartment complex the day after the incident: The single unit that responded was met almost immediately by apartment maintenance (it was a good area). The maintenance worker they met knew us personally and told the officer we were good people (I'm an former missionary and minister) and that it was likely a misunderstanding. He offered to knock on our door, the offer was refused. So he went and got my sister, who he also knew, and brought her to talk to the officer (still only one unit at that point). She told him that she knows for a fact that we have no guns in our home and that this is a definitely a misunderstanding, of course offering to knock in the process, he ignored her and called in the Calvary. They could have done so much to deescalate the situation, but they didn't. And even after it was clear that it was a misunderstanding, they still arrested my wife, also a former missionary. Do you see why I think we are being treated unfairly?

Oh but they do have bearing to the story. Actually I did sleep last night. In fact I didn't check this until today. Sorry I don't hang out on these boards 24/7. I pretty much am on it at work when I'm bored. I don't really need your condescending attitude either. If you have a lawyer you should listen to him or her. If that person isn't getting the results you want, hire a new one because no one on here is going to be able to give you legal advice or tell you what to do.

The facts are someone thought they saw a woman brandishing a gun. So they told the police that. The police responded as any police department would in the report of a gun. They come in and find it's a BB gun. You allege they have the wrong gun. So did you tell your lawyer they have the wrong BB gun?

Do you know how often the police here "they're good people officer?" Your history of missionary work and ministry doesn't make you better than anyone else. How many stories are there of ministers, pastors and priests molesting children, for example? Then you get people say "I thought he was such a good man." Or the serial rapist who no one expected. "He was such a good guy." So please don't bring that up because it has no bearing and the police probably didn't care that your maintenance guy stood up for you.

So your wife's sister lied because there was a BB gun in the house. A gun is a gun...I'm pretty sure the officer who responded followed department policy. Sorry you don't like it but they all have policies and procedures and regulations.

They arrested her because they found a BB gun and the report was that a woman was pointing a gun at people. Police enforce the law - it's up to a prosecutor to file charges and her defense lawyer to defend her in court. You don't defend yourself on the street with the cops. The side of the road or the neighborhood isn't a court of law. If you or someone you know is arrested they should just keep their mouth shut and ask for a lawyer. Not argue it there. If that happened.

No police officer or DA is going to care that you guys were missionaries. That doesn't make you better than anyone else. It might help YOUR lawyer to use for her character and that she has no prior charges and blah blah. But no one else cares. That's like when people post on here "I'm a white male with no priors and in college..." so what? If you don't like my post deal with it. I don't care.

If you have proof that the one in evidence is not yours, you need your wife's lawyer to bring it up. YOU can't do anything. YOU aren't charged and YOU aren't a lawyer. You're paying that lawyer make him or her work. If they aren't, find another one.

 

[mightymoose]

DNA testing is slow, expensive, and extremely unlikely in a case like this.

Your sales receipt isn't going to be much help. For will anyone knows you own 10 bb guns. The receipt won't disprove anything. The police will testify that they found the bb gun in the home in a particular location accessible to and under the control of the suspect.
I'd focus more on how they gained access to the house and found a bb gun in the first place. You say you were at gun point? That doesn't sound like a warrant or willing cooperation.

 

[leslie82]

While it may be valuable to highlight certain parts of a story under some circumstances to gain a better understanding of what happened, this is not one of those circumstances. You are highlighting things that have no actual bearing on the question about proving the BB gun isn't ours. But since you probably won't be able to sleep tonight if I don't tell you, here it is: There was a closet on the balcony that contained our water heater, that is where my wife intended to hide my BB gun. She didn't know it was locked because she had never tried to open if before (she was looking for a place I wouldn't look). Since the door was locked she instead put it under a pile of clothes in the closet.

As to the response of the police force, where do I begin. I heard the story that unfolded at our apartment complex the day after the incident: The single unit that responded was met almost immediately by apartment maintenance (it was a good area). The maintenance worker they met knew us personally and told the officer we were good people (I'm an former missionary and minister) and that it was likely a misunderstanding. He offered to knock on our door, the offer was refused. So he went and got my sister, who he also knew, and brought her to talk to the officer (still only one unit at that point). She told him that she knows for a fact that we have no guns in our home and that this is a definitely a misunderstanding, of course offering to knock in the process, he ignored her and called in the Calvary. They could have done so much to deescalate the situation, but they didn't. And even after it was clear that it was a misunderstanding, they still arrested my wife, also a former missionary. Do you see why I think we are being treated unfairly?

Your OP you said the police cordoned the building and evacuated it and had SWAT set up but then your wife's sister comes in and stops it - then you say that it was just one unit that responded and he called in SWAT. Odd.

 

[leslie82]

DNA testing is slow, expensive, and extremely unlikely in a case like this.

Your sales receipt isn't going to be much help. For will anyone knows you own 10 bb guns. The receipt won't disprove anything. The police will testify that they found the bb gun in the home in a particular location accessible to and under the control of the suspect.
I'd focus more on how they gained access to the house and found a bb gun in the first place. You say you were at gun point? That doesn't sound like a warrant or willing cooperation.

I didn't see him say they were held at gunpoint. He said that the story was retold to him - so I don't think he was even there. He said first that they cordoned the building and evacuated it with SWAT set up until his sister in law stopped them. Then he said that it was one unit showed up and that unit called in SWAT after talking to the maintenance man and his sister in law. I didn't see anything about cops pointing guns at them and forcing them inside. This story really doesn't make much sense anymore now that I see conflicting information. And he wasn't even there it sounds like.

 

[army judge]

I know guys on Bloomingdale PD, heck, I know many deputies and the high sheriff in DuPage County.
Bloomingdale is a very nice, quiet suburb of Chicago.
DuPage is a collar count of Cook.
Crime is very low, or it used to be, with the exception of drug abuse and addiction.
For Bloomingdale PD to dispatch SWAT, something is missing.
The departments in DuPage negotiate first, and well thought of for their hostage and crisis negotiators.
I'm surprised this incident deteriorated the way OP recites.
That said, I searched but found no press clippings about this episode.

However, when communication fails, force is usually escalated.

 

[ElleMD]

No officer worth their badge is going to let an unarmed civilian knock on the door of a home where there has been a report of someone using a gun in a threatening manner. You all might be saints on earth, but what they are dealing with is a person, who may not be either of you, with a gun. Can you imagine if there was an intruder with a real gun and they let your sister waltz in there? It has nothing to do with you being a minister or missionary or otherwise upstanding citizen. Your sister probably didn't do you any favors by telling police there is no gun in the residence when clearly there was. Officers are not going to parse out explanations and misunderstandings and look at Amazon receipts. That isn't their job.

I'm still laying odds there is more to the story. The chances that a utility worker would even be able to identify it was a gun let alone report it to police based on your wife briefly stepping onto the balcony, trying the storage door, and immediately stepping back inside are slim. If none of us are buying it, expect a judge to be equally skeptical.

 

[Markleathe]

I know guys on Bloomingdale PD, heck, I know many deputies and the high sheriff in DuPage County.
Bloomingdale is a very nice, quiet suburb of Chicago.
DuPage is a collar count of Cook.
Crime is very low, or it used to be, with the exception of drug abuse and addiction.
For Bloomingdale PD to dispatch SWAT, something is missing.
The departments in DuPage negotiate first, and well thought of for their hostage and crisis negotiators.
I'm surprised this incident deteriorated the way OP recites.
That said, I searched but found no press clippings about this episode.

However, when communication fails, force is usually escalated.

The incident was not reported by any press as far as I'm aware, I think the whole thing and unfolded in under half an hour so I don't think the Press caught wind of it. I don't know why it unfolded the way that it did, as you stated Bloomingdale is a quiet suburb, but it did and has dragged out quite a bit. I don't think that this incident reflects on the Bloomingdale Police Department as a whole whole but rather the first responder who overreacted, forgot to take the evidence with him, and logged another BB gun as evidence.

 

[mightymoose]

I had led an officer into the closet on the day of the incident and shown it to him at gunpoint....

 

[mightymoose]

For Bloomingdale PD to dispatch SWAT, something is missing.

It wasn't necessarily swat.
Extra officers and traffic control is likely all it was.
To someone who doesn't know any better it looks like swat.

 

[army judge]

The incident was not reported by any press as far as I'm aware, I think the whole thing and unfolded in under half an hour so I don't think the Press caught wind of it. I don't know why it unfolded the way that it did, as you stated Bloomingdale is a quiet suburb, but it did and has dragged out quite a bit. I don't think that this incident reflects on the Bloomingdale Police Department as a whole whole but rather the first responder who overreacted, forgot to take the evidence with him, and logged another BB gun as evidence.

What are the actual charges lodged against your wife?
Did she get released on her signature, or did you have to fork over cash to a bonding agency?
What judge in DuPage has her case?

 

[mightymoose]

Your sister probably didn't do you any favors by telling police there is no gun in the residence when clearly there was.

A bb gun is not a firearm. Apparently the sister's statement was correct. No real gun was found, nor anything illegal.

However, brandishing a bb gun as if it were a firearm is still illegal. It seems the real question here is the manner in which the bb gun was held. That is completely dependent upon the testimony of the victims and any admission by the suspect.

 

[leslie82]

The incident was not reported by any press as far as I'm aware, I think the whole thing and unfolded in under half an hour so I don't think the Press caught wind of it. I don't know why it unfolded the way that it did, as you stated Bloomingdale is a quiet suburb, but it did and has dragged out quite a bit. I don't think that this incident reflects on the Bloomingdale Police Department as a whole whole but rather the first responder who overreacted, forgot to take the evidence with him, and logged another BB gun as evidence.

If it's a small suburb the media would catch wind of it. C'mon now. I'm from a town of 900 people. We have a newspaper. If something like this happened in town or even one of the other small towns around there it would have been in the news.

I agree with everyone else and there's more to the story. Were you even there?

 

[mightymoose]

I think the whole thing and unfolded in under half an hour...

This makes it clear that it was not a swat team. No way.
It also makes it clear there was no warrant. So again, I'm curious how they led you through the house at gunpoint to find the bb gun.

 

[army judge]

A bb gun is not a firearm. Apparently the sister's statement was correct. No real gun was found, nor anything illegal.

A BB gun isn't a firearm in Texas, and California.
However, this is Illinois.
Illinois has some very unique firearms laws.
Some BB guns, and even signal "guns" are covered under FOID in Illinois.
Heck, "nail" guns are covered by FOID in Illinois.

Cook County, especially Chicago tend be even more restrictive, belying the murder rate in Chitown.

First of all in order to buy a firearm in Il, you must first obtain a FOID.
FOID = Firearms Owners Identification Card

What is the definition of a firearm according to FOID?

"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding however:
(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B-B gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter AND which has a maximum muzzle velocity of LESS than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;
(2) any device used exclusively for signalling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;
(3) any device used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and
(4) an antique firearm (other than a machine-gun) which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.

Here's the Illinois State Police Link concerning FOID questions:

Illinois State Police

 

[army judge]

I'm curious how they led you through the house at gunpoint to find the bb gun.

I'm also curious about the why.
Frankly, this post and the ensuing story gets more fascinating with each revelation.

 

[mightymoose]

A BB gun isn't a firearm in Texas, and California.
However, this is Illinois.
Illinois has some very unique firearms laws....

True...
I've been picturing a common little pistol. as in (1)
It could well be something very different.