1. Free Legal Help, Legal Forms and Lawyers. TheLaw.com has been providing free legal assistance online since 1995. Our most popular destinations for legal help are below. It only takes a minute to join our legal community!

    Dismiss Notice

How to make trust papers more legally unequivocal?

Discussion in 'Estate Planning, Creating Wills & Trusts' started by rom299, Feb 10, 2021.

  1. rom299

    rom299 Law Topic Starter New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Jurisdiction:
    Washington
    I am about to purchase membership in LLC. I personally like trusts; and I also think it is convenient if membership share as an asset will pass the probate when I die. But…. Trust paper itself seems to me sooo informal (contrary to LLC, for example, if I buy this share as an LLC). Let say, I set up another LLC and purchase this share in the name of that LLC, --- my name is on file with SOS (in the Articles). No confusion for the heirs. No grounds for ambiguity

    However, if I just draw the trust and sign it in my bedroom,… I am afraid that my heirs/beneficiaries will fall into long litigation over this informal paper. Like: “That’s not his trust”, “That was not HE who signs it”, or even setting up another trust with the SAME name and come up with the hypo: NO, that’s is not the real trust, here is the real one that I am holding ….. and so on. You know how creative people might be when money is at the stake.

    How to make trust distinct and univocal due to make no mistake that THIS particular trust (mine and only mine) purchased LLC share and after my death everything have to be split according to ITS terms.

    Notary, of course. What else? When I sign LLC Operative Agreement as a trust how do I make clear that this is exactly my trust and nobody’s else (with the same name)?
     
  2. rom299

    rom299 Law Topic Starter New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    WA state jurisdiction
     
  3. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,260
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113

    As you were told elsewhere - you need an attorney to properly answer your questions and draft your trust documents.
     
  4. flyingron

    flyingron Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    398
    Trophy Points:
    63

    It would be best if you had an attorney properly draft the trust documents to make sure they accomplish what you want. While you don't need to have a trust document notaraized, signing in front of a notary can avoid some of the issues you are expressing.

    You don't sign "as a trust." A trust is not a person and can't sign anything. You sign as the trustee of the trust for which you are acting.

    You don't actually have to do the purchase by the trust at the outset, you can transfer to the trust as a separate transaction.

    Note, I've always found it useful to have copies of the trust documents (I scanned mine in) because someone invariably asks for it on a transaction to show that I have the authority.

    You also seem to be confused over LLC formation. LLCs in your state do not have articles and don't list the members (owners). Your name is only on the certificate of formation as the registered agent (if you are acting as that) and to attest to the correctness of the information on the certificate.

    People invent these convoluted multilevel things without usually a lot of reason. I suspect you would be well suited by running the whole of what you are attempting by an attorney.
     
    rom299 likes this.
  5. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,260
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113

    justblue likes this.
  6. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,130
    Likes Received:
    927
    Trophy Points:
    113

    ...................
     
  7. zddoodah

    zddoodah Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,617
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Trophy Points:
    113

    What is the factual basis of this fear -- especially given that Washington requires no formalities (not even a writing) for the creation of a trust?

    The easiest way to avoid that is to have your signature on the trust instrument notarized.

    If you suspect that the people you are considering naming as contingent beneficiaries might forget a trust instrument (a criminal act), I have to wonder why you're considering naming them as beneficiaries.

    If this was intended to be a question (and making some assumptions about your grammatical and spelling errors), this question cannot be answered in the abstract. Consult with a local estate planning attorney.

    I don't really understand your concern, so again, consult with a local attorney.

    The OP in that other thread said nothing about Thailand, and googling "PAI trust" produces numerous U.S.-based results, most prominently a retirement/investment company based in Wisconsin.
     
  8. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,260
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113

    I agree - but PAI is place in Thailand as well. That's why I asked for clarification.
     
  9. zddoodah

    zddoodah Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,617
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Trophy Points:
    113

    What you wrote was, "on another forum, this deals with Thailand," and that's not correct.

    Someone at the other site apparently assumed it had something to do with Thailand (and went so far as to close the thread). Thinking that that other thread "deals with Thailand" just because the OP referred to "PAI trust" and there happens to be a village of less than 2,500 people in Thailand was a patently absurd thing for whomever over there did that to have done.
     
  10. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,130
    Likes Received:
    927
    Trophy Points:
    113

    OP posted "PAI Trust" in response to Quincy's question "What is the name of your state?"
     
  11. zddoodah

    zddoodah Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,617
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    Trophy Points:
    113

    That's obviously non-responsive. "PAI trust" is not the name of a state, and if Quincy thought that's what that response meant, then...well...I'll bite my tongue about Quincy.
     
  12. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,130
    Likes Received:
    927
    Trophy Points:
    113

    I'm the one that "assumed" it was Thailand based on OP's response to the question Q asked. I have no power to close a thread on FA, only Admin does.
     
  13. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,260
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113

    What I wrote, it its entirety, is the following:

    (emphasis now added)
     
    justblue likes this.
  14. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,260
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Isn't there a saying about glass houses and stones?
     
    justblue likes this.
  15. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,130
    Likes Received:
    927
    Trophy Points:
    113

    I was the one who assumed it's Thailand based on what OP said. That very clear if you read the FA thread.
     
  16. rom299

    rom299 Law Topic Starter New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Thank you, Flyingron!!!! Exactly what I needed to know.
    I will work out what you briefly said.
    Greatly appreciate your help!
    You've been most of help to me.
     
  17. rom299

    rom299 Law Topic Starter New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    That was mistake. My mistake. I did not wear glasses and red the question as --- what is the name of your Estate? -- I provided the name.
    However, question was what is the name of your State.
    So.. do not bother.. Just disregard this little thing.
    Funny,,,,, some replied: this is for US jurisdictions only; you need Thailand atty.
    PAI Trust -- Thailand?
     
  18. rom299

    rom299 Law Topic Starter New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Thank you, Zddoodah! Thank you very much.
    Will take notes.
    PS. As I replied to Zigner...,
    on another forum I did not have my glasses and red questions as:
    What is the name of your Estate?
    I gave the name.
    Yet, the question was: What is the name of your State.
    Just silly mistake.
    Admin closed the tread not giving me a chance to fix mistake.
     
  19. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,260
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113

    As was pointed out - there is a Pai in Thailand.

    In any case, we don't need to continue on that line - it's been cleared up :)
     
    justblue likes this.

Share This Page