Free Citizens Choose NOT to Do What Puddin' Head Mandates!

[army judge]

NY hospital to pause baby deliveries after staffers quit over vaccine mandate

 

[Tax Counsel]

They quite over their employer's mandate, not the federal government mandate which is not yet in effect anyway. And I have no sympathy for them. The hospital is going to replace them with vaccinated workers, and good luck to those who quit in finding jobs that don't require vaccination. Most medical facilities today require their employees to be vaccinated. And I fully support an employer being able to make that decision, just as they have always had the right to determine what qualifications they want in employees.

 

[Redemptionman]

Mark Levin calls the Marxist baby killer Xiden what he is, a Marxist Communist.

 

[Tax Counsel]

Mark Levin calls the Marxist baby killer Xiden what he is, a Marxist Communist.

There's a big surprise.

 

[Redemptionman]

I am all for FREE WILL, the gubernment in a free society can not mandate anything. You get the Vax because you choose to, not because the government tells you to. The government can keep eroding freedoms till you have tyrannical government. In which a well regulated militia in the constitution deals with such instances. What it was made for.

 

[Tax Counsel]

I am all for FREE WILL, the gubernment in a free society can not mandate anything. You get the Vax because you choose to, not because the government tells you to. The government can keep eroding freedoms till you have tyrannical government. In which a well regulated militia in the constitution deals with such instances. What it was made for.

Some government regulation is needed. Even our founders understood that. And the government has mandated vaccines for many decades. For example, school kids have long been required by states to get a whole host of vaccinations before they can attend school. The public widely supported those laws because they saw the horrors of small pox, mumps, measles, tuberculous, and polio first hand and wanted to be sure those diseases did not come back to ravage the country. So the government clearly has had the authority to mandate vaccines and used to have wide support for it. Now unfortunately we have a bunch of covid anti vaxxer knuckleheads who reject science and pound the mantra of "freedom" in rejecting getting the vaccine, putting not only themselves but the rest of us at risk, and costing us all money too when they rack up medical bills they cannot pay. I have no sympathy for those rejecting the vaccine when they have no true health reasons preventing them from getting it.

A lot of government regulation I oppose. Some regulation, including vaccine mandates however, are necessary and I have no problem supporting that. Even in a free society there a limits to what you can do — you can't just do whatever the hell you want. And Biden is finding that there is majority support for his latest move to get large employers to either have employees vaccinated or tested. That's not surprising since a majority of voting age people are vaccinated. Those who are vaccinated are starting to get very frustrated with those are not and their patience with trying to get them to do it voluntarily is wearing thin. There may be even more mandates, public and private, coming that will put ever increasing pressure on the unvaccinated to get with the program. The sooner, the better — the more people that get vaccinated the faster we can get past the covid crisis.

 

[Redemptionman]

TC either doesn't get or supports a tyrannical government.

The other vaccines you mentioned had many years of development, not a few months. They also were thoroughly tested. It is about personal responsibility, anytime you mandate anything you get resistance. I do not fault anyone who refuses the shot. That is their choice to make not the gubernments.

 

[army judge]

For example, school kids have long been required by states to get a whole host of vaccinations before they can attend school.

There have been allowances made for medical and religious exemptions.

Puddin' Head will soon discover he was elected president, not Dictator!

 

[Tax Counsel]

TC either doesn't get or supports a tyrannical government.

I don't support tyranny. I do support regulation when it's necessary. Unless you are true anarchist you support necessary regulation, too. The difference is in what regulations you support and which ones you don't. For example, I'll bet you think the laws criminalizing murder, rape, and theft are justified. That's a form of regulation, and one that the vast majority of Americans support. And I think this an instance where it is necessary. You disagree with that, evidently, as is your right. Resolving those differences is what our democratic process is for. By the way, George Washington supported vaccine mandates. He required his soldiers to get vaccinated to small pox by using the only method available for that at the time — exposing them all to the disease in batches so that they would not all get it at the same time and to ensure they wouldn't get it at the time of a critical battle. If the father of our country was fine with mandating vaccination for his troops, that suggests to me that vaccination mandates are not "tyranny". Unless you are now going to say George Washington supported tyranny.

The other vaccines you mentioned had many years of development, not a few months.

You are aware that science keeps advancing, right? Some things that used to take years to do can now be done much faster. Vaccine development is an area that has seen huge advances in the decades since the polio and other vaccines that I got as a kid. The latest methods allow for much faster development of at least some vaccines. And that's a development we should all be praising. It saves a lot of lives to get vaccines developed earlier rather than later.

They also were thoroughly tested.

These vaccines too have been extensively tested and after hundreds of millions of doses have proven to be remarkably safe and pretty effective. It's no coincidence that nearly every one dying in a US hospital today to the delta variant is unvaccinated. Had they got the vaccine, they'd not be in that situation. That's the difference the vaccine makes.

You want to oppose the mandates, that's your right. Write your congressional reps and tell them that. But the mood of the majority is against you on this one, and in a democracy it is the will of the majority that prevails.

 

[Redemptionman]

Most all governors in my area said that this is not enforceable. The Sheriff's departments have already released statements that they WILL NOT and WOULD NOT enforce the Crown Biden's mandates. I suggest you read the constitution and try not to modify or interpret it to your own wits end.

You call me a Racist, I call you a Racist
You call me an Anarchist, I can you an Anarchist
You say Potato I say Pot tat o

Same pot meets kettle, since I don't live in your majority you are welcome too it. I would be happy with a Texas size Republic. Whereby the east and west coast can live by their own standards and we ours. Obviously there are too many differences in views between the two areas.

 

[Tax Counsel]

Most all governors in my area said that this is not enforceable.

They are saying that the mandate for large businesses to covid test non vaccinated employees is not enforceable by the federal DOL? Then they are either uniformed about the law or simply pandering to their ultra conservative base. The Supreme Court in 1905 upheld a Massachusetts vaccination mandate, stating:

It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine in the first instance whether vaccination is or is not the best mode for the prevention of smallpox and the protection of the public health.​

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11, 12 (1905). Justice Harlan, who delivered the Court's opinion, went on in the decision to explain:

But the liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States to every person within its jurisdiction does not import an absolute right in each person to be, at all times and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint. There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good. On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy. Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others.
​

Id. at 26. Thus, there is no Constitutional limitation on the government here. The only issue then is whether federal statute empowers the federal government to do it. In that regard, Section 6 of the Occupational Safety and Health Act gives broad authority to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) to regulate employers for the purpose of ensuring worker safety. As a result, I think it very likely that the courts will uphold this particular initiative as being within the power of the federal government, the uniformed opinions of some politicians notwithstanding.

 

[Redemptionman]

They are saying that the mandate for large businesses to covid test non vaccinated employees is not enforceable by the federal DOL? Then they are either uniformed about the law or simply pandering to their ultra conservative base. The Supreme Court in 1905 upheld a Massachusetts vaccination mandate, stating:

It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine in the first instance whether vaccination is or is not the best mode for the prevention of smallpox and the protection of the public health.​

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11, 12 (1905). Justice Harlan, who delivered the Court's opinion, went on in the decision to explain:

But the liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States to every person within its jurisdiction does not import an absolute right in each person to be, at all times and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint. There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good. On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy. Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others.
​

Id. at 26. Thus, there is no Constitutional limitation on the government here. The only issue then is whether federal statute empowers the federal government to do it. In that regard, Section 6 of the Occupational Safety and Health Act gives broad authority to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) to regulate employers for the purpose of ensuring worker safety. As a result, I think it very likely that the courts will uphold this particular initiative as being within the power of the federal government, the uniformed opinions of some politicians notwithstanding.

Listen, TC I am vaxxed but you can not preach to the choir and most all of these people, Sheriff's and governors would tell the government to PISS OFF.

 

[Tax Counsel]

Listen, TC I am vaxxed...

I'm truly glad you are vaccinated, both for your health and those close to you. At least you are not among the knuckleheads that reject the science involved.

Sheriff's and governors would tell the government to PISS OFF.

I'm sure in some red states they would. And it's easy for them to do since it they won't be called on to enforce it anyway. The federal government (specifically OSHA) is the one with the authority to enforce the rule Biden wants, not the states, and the federal government is perfectly capable of enforcing it without the help of a governor or sheriff. So the governor and sheriff can come out talking tough to appease their voters knowing full well as a practical matter it's all just bluff anyway because they'll never have to worry about being asked to enforce it. Politicians of all stripes, conservative and liberal, are experienced players at that game. You've been around long enough to know that, I'm sure.

 

[Redemptionman]

I'm truly glad you are vaccinated, both for your health and those close to you. At least you are not among the knuckleheads that reject the science involved.

and this could be where we differ, I am vaxxed because I choose to. If I did not want to get the shot then I should not have it forced upon me by the government. I should have the FREE WILL in a FREE SOCIETY to make that determination for myself. Not because the government tells me to. When you are without choice is when people resent a over reaching government.

 

[Zigner]

Ahhh, the old boring "you're not the boss of me!" mentality.

Followed by "I'm only doing this because *I* want to, not because you want me to!"

 

[stealthy1]

TC either doesn't get or supports a tyrannical government.

The other vaccines you mentioned had many years of development, not a few months. They also were thoroughly tested. It is about personal responsibility, anytime you mandate anything you get resistance. I do not fault anyone who refuses the shot. That is their choice to make not the gubernments.

I'm thinking there was not the vast development/testing you speak of when Gen'l George Washington required (mandated) his troops to get the smallpox inoculation in 1777.

 

[adjusterjack]

Ahhh, the old boring "you're not the boss of me!" mentality.

Followed by "I'm only doing this because *I* want to, not because you want me to!"

A very astute observation. Thank you, Zigner.

Thread closed.

 

[army judge]

I'm thinking there was not the vast development/testing you speak of when Gen'l George Washington required (mandated) his troops to get the smallpox inoculation in 1777.

Je ne suis pas d'accord, mon ami.

Tiens tes chevaux, mon pote.

Le premier vaccin contre la variole n'a été introduit qu'en 1798.

Edward Jenner is considered the founder of vaccinology in the West in 1796, after he inoculated a 13 year-old-boy with vaccinia virus (cowpox), and demonstrated immunity to smallpox.

In 1798, the first smallpox vaccine was developed.