Effect of title terms

[fmccarthy]

I hope this is in the right section as it pertains to title and this mentions registration which is related, I think.

What I am trying to accomplish is twofold:

1. Make my vehicles easily transferable to my wife if something happens to me.

2. Protect my vehicles as assets/personal property with a "tenancy by entireties." I've seen arguments pro and con re: T.B.E. in Florida, mostly based on the idea that the title isn't durable, a requirement of tbe, I understand. My non-lawyer reading of the statutes makes the passage of title automatic on death, which I believe to be the definition of "durable."

We're talking about an automobile, motorcycle and boat.

The basic question is: should the vehicles (standard FL title document, currently in my name alone) be titled "myself AND my wife" or, "myself OR my wife." My personal opinion is "AND" but I'm not a lawyer.

Also, would the lack of concurrency of titling in ownership have an effect negating the TBE protection. Could one say that I am just adding my wife to the title or would a re-titling, even though I already own the vehicle, constitute a "new start?"

 

[army judge]

Adding a spouse to a title isn't necessary. You're married. She has as much possessory and ownership interest in those things as you do.

You can do as you suggest, but why? She may predecease you. Even if you predecease her, title (ownership) passes to her (legally) anyway. Bottom line, she doesn't have to be on the title to own the vehicle. By virtue of marriage, you both own your vehicles already. In fact, isn't Florida a community property state? If it us, that makes ownership even more secure. If not, that's what your marriage does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fmccarthy]

Only part of where I was going with this. Yes, the property passes as you say, but a bond must be posted unless the vehicle is titled in one of the "joint" (using that term VERY loosely) ways. The other issue to me is asset protection. I was trying to achieve Tenancy by the Entireties protection of assets. The Courts have found that a marriage creates TBE in real estate but have not extended that to personal property (vehicle). In addition, Florida has Homestead as I believe does Texas, which protects the home anyway. Here's the rub, that's unless one changes it by titling "Joint Tenancy" (sometimes adds "with right of survivorship") which is a whole new ball game. The same is true of bank accounts and vehicles. In these cases, one must specifically title the instrument TBE. A "joint" bank account can be titled several different ways and one must be specific. With automobiles, there is no way to title TBE specifically: the only options for individuals are single, that is, only one name on the title; "joint", with either "husband" AND "wife" or, "husband" OR "wife". The AND and OR are different. It is my understanding that OR is treated as joint as in the home issue above and that AND is probably TBE. However, there is some argument as to the possibility of TBE for a couple of technical reasons. I was looking for some thoughts but they need to be within the peculiarities of Florida technicalities as the State Supreme Court has commented on the elements of TBE which include mutual interest, durability of title, concurrence of commencement, and possibly one or two others. Some exceptions and exemptions are given to homes but again, I need to know about the others. (My home is homestead so my death certificate and our marriage certificate are all that is needed to transfer upon my death). For others, in other states who may n ot be aware, the idea of homestead in Florida and a few other states makes the home virtually judgment proof against common actions; there are a few exceptions but they are obvious. Why do you think OJ came to FL? They can't touch his estate, even with an outstanding legal judgment resulting from the Civil suit in CA.

 

[army judge]

Unless your assets and estate are worth hundreds of millions, you're worrying over nothing. If you are worth $500,000,000, you should spend some of that largesse on an CPA and tax attorney.

I know all about transferring assets upon death. The greedy government tax dogs are gonna get their cut. At this stage of my life, I don't care.

You are free to pursue whatever tax strategy that makes sense for you. I hope you (or your spouse) are able to keep all of your assets.

My wife and I are planning to leave the US and resettle in Malaysia, Belize, Indonesia, or some other haven within the next two to three years.

As greedy as state governments are, the federal government is the one that should worry you more. You can do nothing to stop their massive confiscation of private wealth.

I know why OJ left CA for the safety of FL, and it had nothing to do with the weather. That's the same motivation that drove LeBron James to choose Miami over NYC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk