NeedToKnow
New Member
I need a little help, if possible, on how the landlord-tenant laws are actually interpreted when it comes to real life situations where neither party follows the law to the letter.
On Aug 16, my friend rented an eight bedroom house with the intent of renting a few of the rooms. He has a term lease and is the sole lessee. He is also a resident of the rented house (resident/landlord/lessee). I am acting as authorized agent by oral agreement and I am also a resident. I placed ads to rent a few rooms and asked the owner for a lease. He said get a standard sub-lease off the internet. Well, after some research there really is no such animal. Technically we aren't really giving room renters leases that are subordinate to the house lease. I did find a suitable room rental agreement (a Residential Room Rental Agreement) but it needed to be customized to our specific house share situation and policies if I was going to use it. I started doing more research on leases, sub-leases and landlord-tenant law but I also started renting out rooms without a written lease. I did give room tenants a written extract of the 'rent' portion of the Agreement and a receipt for the first rent payment and for the deposit payment. This was signed by the room tenant and myself.
One person who took our smallest room told us he was starting a new career in computer sales and service. When he viewed the room he told us he was also looking for a storefront and that he had found one only blocks away from our house. When asked how long he wanted a room for, he said six months. He took a room and signed the rent and deposit receipt on Sept 15, 2005. It was my understanding at the time oral agreements were ok and that the tenant is on a month to month tenancy but then I learned that in WA you must have a written lease if you take a deposit and that this agreement must also be signed. I work ~ this is not my full time job, I was trying to fill two more room then my father died in IL without a will so I have had several things going on that needed my time and attention so I did not give tenants leases when I should have. While I was working on customizing the generic agreement we noticed this tenant (I'll call them "Ed") was having people come to the house and he was selling them computers. The house is in a residential neighborhood and is not zoned commercial and the house lease specifically states no businesses even if its a legal home business. Ed also had placed a neon open sign in his window which faces the roadway. At first we thought it was decorative but once more and more computer customers came to the house every week we realized this was not decorative. Two Saturdays in a row I happened to be home and counted 5 groups of people at his room door waiting to buy computers. Aside being against our lease and city ordinances I was pretty sure Ed did not have a business license nor did he have any insurance for this and if any one of those little kids were to fall up the stairs and get hurt Ed would not be able to deal with that.
When I finished the leases, I gave one all tenants including Ed. Since I was now sure Ed was running a storefront from his room, when I gave him his lease I explained that this was against the house lease, therefore, his lease and asked him the status of finding storefront like he told us when he first came here. I was still working on the "in good faith" program at that time. I figured that selling computers was how he paid rent and I didn't want to give anyone a 20 day notice right before Thanksgiving or Christmas/New Years so the lease I gave him ended on January 14 ~ four months instead of six. Ed claimed that we said he could work from home which we were in agreement that he could repair computers in his room and if he needed to spill out into the rec room he could. But no one told a he could run a storefront open to public traffic. He got angry and took the lease from me and walked away. On that same day, Nov 16, I gave all tenants their first utility bills.
After about ten days, Ed was the only one who did not pay their share of the utility bills and I checked with the landlord and Ed never returned the singed lease either. I decided it was best to write up what had transpired to clear up any further misunderstanding about the allowable use of the room and the house and the lease. I thought I was being rather lenient about the whole thing considering what I could have done plus the lease was only two months short of what he said he was looking and it was two months until the lease ended. I did state in my letter that if he was not interested in accepting the term of the lease I would forward amendments to make the Agreement a month to month tenancy. I asked him to return the lease and his decision along with payment of the now past due utilities within 48 hours.
He did not respond to my request so I wrote another letter asking if he would be signing today or did he want amendments and either way, please be sure to pay utilities today. Again, no response. The landlord told me to make it clear to him that he needed to make a decision now so I sent another notice on Dec 1. On Dec 2, Bob finally replied and tells me, "Your constant harassment and disrespect of my self and my property will not extort me into signing (or doing) anything."
The landlord asked Ed for utility money and the lease and Ed accused the landlord of being a part of some religious cult and the we are all against him because he's not a part of our cult. He then told the landlord something about people hiding his phone bill, his USP packages and something about someone putting his shoes out in the rain. Although Ed is a 47yo adult, Ed has been acting like a rebellious teenager. We're trying to hear what he has to say when he actually speaks but we are also trying to stick with the factual issues. No one hid Ed's phone bill ~ I personally put Ed's phone bill under his door. And when his second phone bill came marked "open immediately" it was clear that he was not paying that bill either. No one is in a cult and no one is responsible for where the UPS guy put Ed package. No one has a clue what Ed is talking about with the shoe thing either. There are six other adults in this large house ~ one is an attorney, one works 15 hours a day for Microsoft … no one has time to play games with Ed. Ed cannot back any of these things up with any factual data of any kind. Ed has taken the passive-aggressive approach since November but the landlord keeps trying to talk to him anyway.
I know that a lease is a 'take it or leave it' thing so he does not have to take it but on Dec 5th he paid December rent and the landlord accepted the money order but the landlord did not get the signed lease or instead, any agreement to remaining month to month nor did he get any utility money.
On Dec 6 Landlord asked for the utility money again and Ed said he would pay "tomorrow". "Tomorrow" came and went but Ed never paid. So On Dec 12, we both served Ed with a 10 day notice to comply or vacate. We asked Ed to pay his due utilities. I also stated in the notice that we took his refusal to sign the term lease as a rejection of said term lease and that staying and paying periodic rent was construed to be a tenancy from month to month. We also gave Ed a notice to terminate tenancy. I gave Ed all the rest of the required paperwork he would not take when I gave him the lease back in Nov and I tried to make it clear that the landlord would not be forced into violating any RCW requirement because the tenant refused to cooperate.
I don't really want to go to court ~ I don't have the nervous system for this kind of thing. I would love forced arbitration ~ Ed pay utilities, Ed leave on x day and we all live happily ever after. Ed seems to feel justified in his actions although we can never get any kind of straight answer as to why. I do know in Seattle, you must have your rent and utilities paid before you seek (word?) uh making your landlord do something. However, if we file an unlawful detainer action it is my understanding (so far) part of the eviction process is a 'show cause' hearing. Can he bring up anything of this mess or will he have to stick to the ten day notice to comply issues (paying utilities, tenancy from month to month and leasing process has been completed)?
Ed claims he was a certified paralegal for ten years but Ed, who threatened to change the door locks (criminal charges in Seattle), is not very good about due diligence before he takes an action so we're not sure what Ed will do when we file an unlawful detainer action. Since all four parties (owner, landlord, agent, tenant) did not exactly following the law to the letter, what happens in such a case when we go to court? Is it specific point by specific point or do they sort of deal with the whole mess at once so we can just get it settled? Unfortunately I make about $100 a week right now so hiring an attorney cannot be my first course of action. Thanks for any help you can lend.
On Aug 16, my friend rented an eight bedroom house with the intent of renting a few of the rooms. He has a term lease and is the sole lessee. He is also a resident of the rented house (resident/landlord/lessee). I am acting as authorized agent by oral agreement and I am also a resident. I placed ads to rent a few rooms and asked the owner for a lease. He said get a standard sub-lease off the internet. Well, after some research there really is no such animal. Technically we aren't really giving room renters leases that are subordinate to the house lease. I did find a suitable room rental agreement (a Residential Room Rental Agreement) but it needed to be customized to our specific house share situation and policies if I was going to use it. I started doing more research on leases, sub-leases and landlord-tenant law but I also started renting out rooms without a written lease. I did give room tenants a written extract of the 'rent' portion of the Agreement and a receipt for the first rent payment and for the deposit payment. This was signed by the room tenant and myself.
One person who took our smallest room told us he was starting a new career in computer sales and service. When he viewed the room he told us he was also looking for a storefront and that he had found one only blocks away from our house. When asked how long he wanted a room for, he said six months. He took a room and signed the rent and deposit receipt on Sept 15, 2005. It was my understanding at the time oral agreements were ok and that the tenant is on a month to month tenancy but then I learned that in WA you must have a written lease if you take a deposit and that this agreement must also be signed. I work ~ this is not my full time job, I was trying to fill two more room then my father died in IL without a will so I have had several things going on that needed my time and attention so I did not give tenants leases when I should have. While I was working on customizing the generic agreement we noticed this tenant (I'll call them "Ed") was having people come to the house and he was selling them computers. The house is in a residential neighborhood and is not zoned commercial and the house lease specifically states no businesses even if its a legal home business. Ed also had placed a neon open sign in his window which faces the roadway. At first we thought it was decorative but once more and more computer customers came to the house every week we realized this was not decorative. Two Saturdays in a row I happened to be home and counted 5 groups of people at his room door waiting to buy computers. Aside being against our lease and city ordinances I was pretty sure Ed did not have a business license nor did he have any insurance for this and if any one of those little kids were to fall up the stairs and get hurt Ed would not be able to deal with that.
When I finished the leases, I gave one all tenants including Ed. Since I was now sure Ed was running a storefront from his room, when I gave him his lease I explained that this was against the house lease, therefore, his lease and asked him the status of finding storefront like he told us when he first came here. I was still working on the "in good faith" program at that time. I figured that selling computers was how he paid rent and I didn't want to give anyone a 20 day notice right before Thanksgiving or Christmas/New Years so the lease I gave him ended on January 14 ~ four months instead of six. Ed claimed that we said he could work from home which we were in agreement that he could repair computers in his room and if he needed to spill out into the rec room he could. But no one told a he could run a storefront open to public traffic. He got angry and took the lease from me and walked away. On that same day, Nov 16, I gave all tenants their first utility bills.
After about ten days, Ed was the only one who did not pay their share of the utility bills and I checked with the landlord and Ed never returned the singed lease either. I decided it was best to write up what had transpired to clear up any further misunderstanding about the allowable use of the room and the house and the lease. I thought I was being rather lenient about the whole thing considering what I could have done plus the lease was only two months short of what he said he was looking and it was two months until the lease ended. I did state in my letter that if he was not interested in accepting the term of the lease I would forward amendments to make the Agreement a month to month tenancy. I asked him to return the lease and his decision along with payment of the now past due utilities within 48 hours.
He did not respond to my request so I wrote another letter asking if he would be signing today or did he want amendments and either way, please be sure to pay utilities today. Again, no response. The landlord told me to make it clear to him that he needed to make a decision now so I sent another notice on Dec 1. On Dec 2, Bob finally replied and tells me, "Your constant harassment and disrespect of my self and my property will not extort me into signing (or doing) anything."
The landlord asked Ed for utility money and the lease and Ed accused the landlord of being a part of some religious cult and the we are all against him because he's not a part of our cult. He then told the landlord something about people hiding his phone bill, his USP packages and something about someone putting his shoes out in the rain. Although Ed is a 47yo adult, Ed has been acting like a rebellious teenager. We're trying to hear what he has to say when he actually speaks but we are also trying to stick with the factual issues. No one hid Ed's phone bill ~ I personally put Ed's phone bill under his door. And when his second phone bill came marked "open immediately" it was clear that he was not paying that bill either. No one is in a cult and no one is responsible for where the UPS guy put Ed package. No one has a clue what Ed is talking about with the shoe thing either. There are six other adults in this large house ~ one is an attorney, one works 15 hours a day for Microsoft … no one has time to play games with Ed. Ed cannot back any of these things up with any factual data of any kind. Ed has taken the passive-aggressive approach since November but the landlord keeps trying to talk to him anyway.
I know that a lease is a 'take it or leave it' thing so he does not have to take it but on Dec 5th he paid December rent and the landlord accepted the money order but the landlord did not get the signed lease or instead, any agreement to remaining month to month nor did he get any utility money.
On Dec 6 Landlord asked for the utility money again and Ed said he would pay "tomorrow". "Tomorrow" came and went but Ed never paid. So On Dec 12, we both served Ed with a 10 day notice to comply or vacate. We asked Ed to pay his due utilities. I also stated in the notice that we took his refusal to sign the term lease as a rejection of said term lease and that staying and paying periodic rent was construed to be a tenancy from month to month. We also gave Ed a notice to terminate tenancy. I gave Ed all the rest of the required paperwork he would not take when I gave him the lease back in Nov and I tried to make it clear that the landlord would not be forced into violating any RCW requirement because the tenant refused to cooperate.
I don't really want to go to court ~ I don't have the nervous system for this kind of thing. I would love forced arbitration ~ Ed pay utilities, Ed leave on x day and we all live happily ever after. Ed seems to feel justified in his actions although we can never get any kind of straight answer as to why. I do know in Seattle, you must have your rent and utilities paid before you seek (word?) uh making your landlord do something. However, if we file an unlawful detainer action it is my understanding (so far) part of the eviction process is a 'show cause' hearing. Can he bring up anything of this mess or will he have to stick to the ten day notice to comply issues (paying utilities, tenancy from month to month and leasing process has been completed)?
Ed claims he was a certified paralegal for ten years but Ed, who threatened to change the door locks (criminal charges in Seattle), is not very good about due diligence before he takes an action so we're not sure what Ed will do when we file an unlawful detainer action. Since all four parties (owner, landlord, agent, tenant) did not exactly following the law to the letter, what happens in such a case when we go to court? Is it specific point by specific point or do they sort of deal with the whole mess at once so we can just get it settled? Unfortunately I make about $100 a week right now so hiring an attorney cannot be my first course of action. Thanks for any help you can lend.