Defending red light camera tickets

notguiltyatall

New Member
Jurisdiction
New York
I received a red light camera ticket for going through a red light. I was traveling at the speed limit (25 mph) on a side street in Brooklyn (New York City.) I approached the intersection at 25 mph, the yellow light flashed for an instant and then it turned red. There is no way that I could have stopped in time in full. I don't think it's fair to receive this ticket and will plead not guilty. But how do I defend this? Do I have to go down to the streetlight and take a video? How do I present it in court and make my case? How many seconds does a yellow light have to be yellow to let the judge know that this is not fair?
 
Do I have to go down to the streetlight and take a video?

Have to? No. However, if you can show video that shows that, on or near the same date/time when you got your ticket, the light was behaving as you described, you might be able to defeat the charge.


How many seconds does a yellow light have to be yellow to let the judge know that this is not fair?

I'd suggest reviewing some of these search results.

Beyond that, traffic court is typically VERY informal. If you want to see how it works, go to the courtroom sometime prior to the date of your hearing and watch.
 
How many seconds does a yellow light have to be yellow to let the judge know that this is not fair?



How Long Does a Yellow Light Last?

In New York City, the Administrative Code requires that a traffic control device remain in the yellow phase for 2-3 seconds. This is a relatively short duration.

In contrast, the duration of a yellow light duration in California varies based on the speed limit but can be 4.2 seconds, and Texas requires a 4.7-second interval for the amber phase on roads with speeds of 50 mph and higher.

However, in New York, yellow lights are often set to last only about 3 seconds. With the proliferation of red light cameras, a "quick" yellow leads to many more tickets being issued.

One diligent motorist was able to get a red light camera ticket thrown out recently in Glassboro, New Jersey. The motorist timed the duration of the yellow light duration and found it to be only 3 seconds, despite New Jersey law requiring it to be 4 seconds. This led to 12,000 other red light camera tickets issued at this intersection being thrown out too.


My best advice is that, if you see yellow and you are not already in the intersection, hit your brakes. In my opinion, disobeying a red light is one of the motorist dangerous moving violations on the books. Cross traffic relies on the green light as a sign that the "coast is clear" and some very bad T-bone accidents occur when someone runs a red light.








 
But how do I defend this? Do I have to go down to the streetlight and take a video? How do I present it in court and make my case? How many seconds does a yellow light have to be yellow to let the judge know that this is not fair?
You do this by attempting to show that you could not safely stop before the light turned red. My understanding is that when the light turns yellow you are supposed to prepare to stop if you can safely do so. (Granted, it's been close to 20 years since I last read the NY state driver's manual.)

So yes, you have to determine how long the yellow light lasts at that specific intersection, and what the reasonable stopping time at the speed limit would be. There are various formulas, but overall it depends on both the speed limit and the size of the intersection. I tried typing "showing that a yellow light is too short" into my favorite search engine and got several promising results.

My best advice is that, if you see yellow and you are not already in the intersection, hit your brakes. In my opinion, disobeying a red light is one of the motorist dangerous moving violations on the books. Cross traffic relies on the green light as a sign that the "coast is clear" and some very bad T-bone accidents occur when someone runs a red light.

The exception is the "Inner Core" of Boston. There are some intersections where Masshole drivers are prone to confuse red and green.
 
You do this by attempting to show that you could not safely stop before the light turned red. My understanding is that when the light turns yellow you are supposed to prepare to stop if you can safely do so. (Granted, it's been close to 20 years since I last read the NY state driver's manual.)

So yes, you have to determine how long the yellow light lasts at that specific intersection, and what the reasonable stopping time at the speed limit would be. There are various formulas, but overall it depends on both the speed limit and the size of the intersection. I tried typing "showing that a yellow light is too short" into my favorite search engine and got several promising results.



The exception is the "Inner Core" of Boston. There are some intersections where Masshole drivers are prone to confuse red and green.
Idiot drivers are all over. I would much rather drive in Beantown vs Vegas. People drive pointlessly crazy stupid here.
 
Idiot drivers are all over. I would much rather drive in Beantown vs Vegas. People drive pointlessly crazy stupid here.

Las Wages is a rather unique city. It draws visitors from all over our blue marble, not just the other 49 states.

Vegas has done very well, from a humble beginning, even acquiring water for millions of citizens.

Howard Hughes, born in Texas on Christmas Eve, 1905, Baron Hilton, born in Dallas in late October of 1927, Benny Binion, another Texas lad, all of the others I commend for their vision.

Read all about them, especially them good old, Texas boys!!!!


 
I couldn't find a reference to the minimum duration of yellow lights for traffic control signals in New York City's Administrative Code. It may be arguable that it must be a minium of 3 seconds and up to 6 seconds, depending upon the street and speed limight.

I did find an interesting reference to the US Federal Highway Administration (FHA) Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices for Streets and Highways
  • The purpose of the MUTCD is to establish uniform national criteria for the use of traffic control devices thatmeet the needs and expectancy of road users on all streets, highways, pedestrian and bicycle facilities, and siteroadways open to public travel.
  • Section 1B.03 Compliance of Devices
    Standard: 01 The U.S. Secretary of Transportation, under authority granted by the Highway Safety Act of 1966, decreed that traffic control devices on all streets and highways open to public travel in accordance with 23 U.S.C. 109(d) and 402(a) in each State shall be in substantial conformance with the Standards issued or endorsed by the FHWA.
    Support: 02 23 CFR 655.603 also requires traffic control devices on all streets, highways, bikeways, and site roadways open to public travel in each State be in substantial conformance with standards issued or endorsed by the Federal Highway Administrator
  • Section 1D.01: This Manual contains the basic principles that govern the design and use of traffic control devices for allstreets, highways, bikeways, and site roadways open to public travel (see definition in Section 1C.02) regardlessof type or class or the public agency, official, or owner having jurisdiction. The text of this Manual specifies therestriction on the use of a device if it is intended for limited application or for a specific system. It is important thatthese principles be given primary consideration in the selection and application of each device.
It seems like the FHA sets the standards and could set a minimum threshold for safety and is applicable to all streets in the US. Applicable section is below.

Section 4F.17 Yellow Change and Red Clearance Intervals
Support:01 The exclusive function of the yellow change interval is to warn traffic approaching a signalized locationthat their permission to proceed is being terminated after which they will be directed to stop, or in the case of aprotected/permissive turning movement that their protected movement is being terminated after which they willneed to perform their turn in a permissive manner​
Guidance:
A yellow change interval should have a minimum duration of 3 seconds, and a maximum duration of 6 seconds. The longer intervals should be reserved for use on approaches with higher speeds. Except when clearing a one-lane, two-way facility (see Section 4O.02) or when clearing an exceptionally wide intersection, a red clearance interval should have a duration not exceeding 6 seconds.

A duration of 3-6 seconds is recommended per a scientific study and according to the MUTCD. According to the Manual on Uniform on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) the duration of a yellow light should be 3 to 6 seconds, as per below:

Section 4D.10 Yellow Change and Red Clearance Intervals
Standard:
A yellow signal indication shall be displayed following every CIRCULAR GREEN or GREEN ARROW signal indication.

The exclusive function of the yellow change interval shall be to warn traffic of an impending change in the right-of-way assignment.

The duration of a yellow change interval shall be predetermined.

Guidance:
A yellow change interval should have a duration of approximately 3 to 6 seconds. The longer intervals should be reserved for use on approaches with higher speeds.

Option:
The yellow change interval may be followed by a red clearance interval to provide additional time before conflicting traffic movements, including pedestrians, are released.

Standard:
The duration of a red clearance interval shall be predetermined.

Guidance:
A red clearance interval should have a duration not exceeding 6 seconds.​
 
I'm not sure how convincing it will be to walk into court with a barren claim that the light duration was too short, as painfully inconvenient as it may be. The minimum recommended duration under the FHA for a speed limit of 25 mph is 3 seconds. You may want to take a video of the traffic control signal to determine the duration and make a convincing case. Good luck.
 
It's a fun and interesting place...but the drivers suck.

In my opinion, Florida and Ohio produce our nation's worst drivers.

I love Reno and Lost Wages. Nevada is a very welcoming, friendly state, populated by folks who love the USA.

During my Active army days, I spent a few weeks at Nellis AFB.
I also spent about 90 days at Hawthorne Army Depot is a U.S. Army Joint Munitions Command ammunition storage depot located near the town of Hawthorne in western Nevada in the United States. Hawthorne Army Depot (HWAD) is located 72 miles south of Reno, Nevada.

I really liked Reno, too.
 

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