Shoplifting, Larceny, Robbery, Theft Default Shoplifting Via Adding Small Tip. (Class B Misdemeanor)

[maidmarian4]

I'm in shock - considering that my husband has no prior record other than one speeding ticket in the last year. This is his first and only criminal offense.

My husband (of 14 years and 4 wonderful children) delivers food for his second job. About 10 days ago, he stupidly/impulsively added a $3 tip to a credit card slip. The customer reported it to the police and the police came last night to the business find out who it was. My hubby confessed immediately and he said the officer was amazingly nice and forgiving, but he will have to go to a judge and see where it goes from there. He was cited with a Class B Misdemeanor. But, being that it's for a credit card, the officer speculated that there's a slight chance it would be a felony. This is his first and only offense. He was asked by the police and business owner if he had done this before, and he did admit that there had been about 5-6 total times he's added tips under $3 since he started work there in October last year. From what he understood, both the boss and police man said that unless they get disputed, he won't be charged for those.

Any suggestions (besides the obvious of being polite in church dress and manner to the judge)?
What consequences (monetary and community wise) are we most likely looking at my husband getting?

Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
maidmarian4

 

[cbg]

He can expect to be fired, for one thing.

 

[txls]

Hopefully he's already fired. And stop kidding yourself. He did not "impulsively" add this tip and it's not his first and only offense. He admitted he had done it 5 or 6 times before. Which probably means he's done it more than that. I don't care if it's only $3.00, it's stealing. However without evidence on the other's he'll only have to face the music for the $3.00.

 

[army judge]

Hard to say what the prosecutor will eventually decide to do.

If the prosecutor goes with the current charge, he's likely to end up paying a stiff fine, some rather large court costs, other odds and ends fees, receive probation, incur additional costs for probation fees, be sentenced to do community service hours, PROBABLY no jail time because this is his first bite of the juicy caramel criminal justice apple (as far as YOU know), have this STAIN on his record that could end up costing him his REAL job, face community ridicule and scorn, the sadness and disappointment your children will feel and endure because dad's a thief, and because of his admissions - the police are likely poring over credit card transactions for the past 90-180 days!!!!

I almost forgot, he might not qualify for a public defender. So, there could be another $2,500 to $5,000 for lawyer fees. I don't know what Utah lawyers charge, but that's what my brothers and sisters at the Texas Bar often charge.

My goodness, madam, I do wish the best for your family. It's disturbing for sure, so take solace in knowing its not the crime of the century.

 

[Betty3]

He definitely needs to talk to a lawyer.

If he hasn't already been fired, he probably will be & he most likely will not get unemployment ins. though it looks like this was a 2nd job anyway.

 

[mightymoose]

The worst of it will be losing his job. This won't go far in court if he has no record.

 

[maidmarian4]

Hopefully he's already fired. And stop kidding yourself. He did not "impulsively" add this tip and it's not his first and only offense. He admitted he had done it 5 or 6 times before. Which probably means he's done it more than that. I don't care if it's only $3.00, it's stealing. However without evidence on the other's he'll only have to face the music for the $3.00.

I realize now that by using the word "impulsively" I sound like I'm not taking this seriously. Or that I think it is no big deal. That is entirely wrong. This is a huge deal. This has affected the person(s) he stole from, the place of business he did this with, himself, and our family of four children... along with all that goes with the charge(s) and costs of the consequences of outright stealing.

I honestly don't know what to do "with him." So much of me loves him of course, but for him to do this just makes me feel like it is not going to end well. Where are his priorities? That is another reason why I'm wondering what the possible consequences and outcomes could be, and how to ride them out the most wise way possible.

He did see a psychiatrist a month or two ago and they suspect he has bipolar disorder. He goes in (coincidentally) in about 10 days to have me there to talk with the psychiatrist to be sure that he is bipolar. Will having that diagnosis do anything for his case?

 

[army judge]

I realize now that by using the word "impulsively" I sound like I'm not taking this seriously. Or that I think it is no big deal. That is entirely wrong. This is a huge deal. This has affected the person(s) he stole from, the place of business he did this with, himself, and our family of four children... along with all that goes with the charge(s) and costs of the consequences of outright stealing.

I honestly don't know what to do "with him." So much of me loves him of course, but for him to do this just makes me feel like it is not going to end well. Where are his priorities? That is another reason why I'm wondering what the possible consequences and outcomes could be, and how to ride them out the most wise way possible.

He did see a psychiatrist a month or two ago and they suspect he has bipolar disorder. He goes in (coincidentally) in about 10 days to have me there to talk with the psychiatrist to be sure that he is bipolar. Will having that diagnosis do anything for his case?

I know several people suffering with bipolar disorder. None of them are thieves. Sorry, there's no excuse to steal.

Frankly, your husband impresses me as a hard working family man. For goodness sakes, working two or three jobs isn't easy. So, that indicates one of his good qualities, industriousness.

You can't "do anything" with him. He's an adult. You can love him, keep your family together, get a couple extra jobs yourself, and do the best you can.

If he's done other dirty deeds during your marriage, only you can decide if this is THAT straw. Otherwise, you and he should discuss this bump in the road.

I'd endeavor to hang through the court proceedings, support each other for your children, then decide what you will do in by summer or early next fall.

If the charge remains a misdemeanor, he'll get probation, pay some fines, do community service, and it'll all be over by year's end. I doubt that he'll get prison time, with a clean record, even if they charge him with a felony.

For the immediate days head, keep your head up, your family together, discuss it as husband and wife, and fix things to make them better.

 

[maidmarian4]

I know several people suffering with bipolar disorder. None of them are thieves. Sorry, there's no excuse to steal.

Definitely not an excuse, but more of a psychological understanding. From talking with my therapist about this, basically when they are unmedicated and in a manic phase, they think they are indestructible. They also do things without thinking it through because of the manic state. They also tend to lack a moral compass in their manic phase. Having bipolar disorder doesn't mean you will be a thief of course. ;-) It's also no excuse if you are a thief.

Frankly, your husband impresses me as a hard working family man. For goodness sakes, working two or three jobs isn't easy. So, that indicates one of his good qualities, industriousness.

Thanks. He did start this second job this fall and it has really helped to support our family. I was so proud of him. I have a side job pet sitting so I can raise my kids and not have to have a sitter.

You can't "do anything" with him. He's an adult. You can love him, keep your family together, get a couple extra jobs yourself, and do the best you can.

If he's done other dirty deeds during your marriage, only you can decide if this is THAT straw. Otherwise, you and he should discuss this bump in the road.

I'd endeavor to hang through the court proceedings, support each other for your children, then decide what you will do in by summer or early next fall.

You're right. I didn't commit the crime and would never commit it either because it's stealing for one, and also there are lifelong consequences morally, economically, socially, etc. Thanks for your thoughts on hanging in there for the court proceedings. This has turned my world upside down and there are several "what ifs" that I've been facing.

If the charge remains a misdemeanor, he'll get probation, pay some fines, do community service, and it'll all be over by year's end. I doubt that he'll get prison time, with a clean record, even if they charge him with a felony.

For the immediate days ahead, keep your head up, your family together, discuss it as husband and wife, and fix things to make them better.

So, he had called a few attorneys for free advice and he was told by one that he should talk with the prosecutor first to get a feeling for what he's going to be officially charged with and to see if he could work out a deal. If it turns into a felony, then he should get a lawyer. This was one attorney. Any thoughts or agreeance to this?

 

[maidmarian4]

He's going to set up an appointment with the prosecutor tomorrow (the court told him today that it's better to come in for an appointment than call for an appointment).

1. So, when he goes to the prosecutor, does he make sure to say that he is pleading not guilty and then requesting a PD?
2. What kind of questions or statements should he make to the prosecutor?
3. Is this when he'd ask for a diversion?
4. Do prosecutors typically (by one's individual observations) do more research into a first offender with a class B misdemeanor charge?

Thank you all for your advice.

 

[army judge]

So, when he goes to the prosecutor tomorrow, does he make sure to say that he is pleading not guilty and then requesting a PD?
What kind of questions or statements should he make to the prosecutor?

No criminal defendant or target should ever speak to a persecutor, err, silly old me, PROSECUTOR without his or her defense lawyer being present in the room.

If he has a court hearing tomorrow, he should appear when and where instructed, plead not guilty, offer no explanations, admit to nothing, confess to nothing, and should - whenever he's allowed, after entering his plea, request the court to appoint him a public defender.

In some states, the judge will ask him about his finances, under oath in an open court room, in other states, he'll be directed to see a clerk and be given a set of forms to complete that describe his financial situation. The clerk evaluates the information and determines if he's eligible for a public defender.

If he's qualified for a public defender, he'll be given instructions as to how and when to contact the person.

In some cases, he'll be told to simply wait a couple weeks for the public defender to contact him.

He should NOT discuss any part of this case with anyone but you (his wife) and his lawyer.

If he has admitted to this earlier, I think you said he spilled his guts to the police officer, that can become a very big problem.

For it not to become a bigger problem, he must do two things: SHUT UP, and stay out of additional legal troubles while this matter is pending.

While he waits, he can get therapy, counseling, take classes on honesty, ethics, and classes that discuss NOT stealing.
His current psychologist, psychiatrist, personal physician, or therapist asre greta sources of where and how to gain admission to such classes,

Hang in there, ma'am, at least for the next several months.

Remember, he's innocent until proven guilty.

It is also an established fact that some bipolar sufferers confess to things readily, and are very easily manipulated by authority.
FULL DISCLOSURE, I'm no psychologist, but my brother is, and my sister is a psychiatrist.
I've defended people charged with crimes far more heinous than you hubby's.
He has a few options, the confession aside, so don't throw the towel in, just yet.

I wish you all well tomorrow and in the days ahead.

 

[maidmarian4]

armyjudge you have been extensively helpful! You've also helped calm my broken, angry heart for a moment.

If you have time, a few more questions...

*If I'm understanding correctly, he is to go in on his court date, plead not guilty, and petition for a PD (we make 37k - is that "indigent?")?
*Should he ask for a diversion from the judge (honestly, I don't understand what that means. But, I've been reading that on other threads)?
*Does going to his psychiatrist, getting a diagnosis and having the Dr. write up something about it help at all with his case?
*Does going to therapy or classes etc help with his case?

 

[shrinkmaster]

No PD will take the time to do all that. Plead not guilty and ask for PD when you talk to him/her ask if ACD or Diversion is an option

 

[army judge]

armyjudge you have been extensively helpful! You've also helped calm my broken, angry heart for a moment.

If you have time, a few more questions...

*If I'm understanding correctly, he is to go in on his court date, plead not guilty, and petition for a PD (we make 37k - is that "indigent?")?
*Should he ask for a diversion from the judge (honestly, I don't understand what that means. But, I've been reading that on other threads)?
*Does going to his psychiatrist, getting a diagnosis and having the Dr. write up something about it help at all with his case?
*Does going to therapy or classes etc help with his case?

You're welcome, just remember keep it together for the kids.
There's no need to rush to make other decisions now, as long as he's been a proper father and husband so far.

I don't know how much is too much in CA.
In Texas $37K, plus other expenses, would qualify in our larger cities.
In our rural areas, $37K might not.

At this point, all he can do is ask and see what the court will allow.
If he doesn't qualify for a PD, I'd be very surprised, especially with three children at home.
Plus, he has a special situation because he's suddenly lost his job.
Let's hope he qualifies, if not then he'll can simply ask for a continuance of at least six weeks to get the money together to hire a defense lawyer.
Whatever he does, don't rush things.
Time is an ally in criminal cases, nice and slow, easy does it, steady as he goes.

Okay, check in and let us know what transpired during the court hearing and after.
We're always interested in knowing if we've been able to help people.

Oh, did he have to post a cash bond, or did they release him on his promise to appear and a be a good lad?
By the way, that's also where you can help.
Make sure he sees his medical providers, takes his medicines, and otherwise behaves himself.
If he stumbles while this is pending, that would be a very bad thing.
So, make sure he doesn't go off the reservation, so to speak.

 

[maidmarian4]

Plus, he has a special situation because he's suddenly lost his job.

As of this recent Monday, he has lost both jobs (the "main one" was lost due to a major depressive stage and he screwed up royally). So currently, we have no income. He's actively looking and at this point probably has a newspaper delivery job while looking for a more stable one.

I would guess that currently, UTAH would set him up with a PD.

Oh, did he have to post a cash bond, or did they release him on his promise to appear and a be a good lad?
By the way, that's also where you can help.
Make sure he sees his medical providers, takes his medicines, and otherwise behaves himself.

He was approached by an officer at his delivery job with the citation. He was given the citation and that was it. No processing that involved fingerprints or bringing him into the police station. He was given the citation, and then the officer left.

He did start meds for Bipolar almost a week ago. He saw his first Therapist this week. I will make sure to keep tabs on that. After this post, I plan on calling his Psychiatrist and telling them that I'd like a form saying that he has Bipolar disorder that I can hand to the ballif. He's still manic and is determined to talk with the Prosecutor. He heard from a lawyer that that was what he should do because they are the ones with power. I agree, but they also have power to really screw things up worse, right?

He has a court date on this upcoming Monday with the Judge.

 

[army judge]

Wow, hang in there. You are the glue that will hold your family together.
He needs to request a PD, ASAP. His next court hearing is where he can inform the judge about his recent loss of income and job.

He should also start the process to apply for social security disability.
You need to look into state assistance, food stamps, other aid.

It's so sad, all over three lousy bucks. That's why crime, even crap crime never pays.

He shouldn't meet with the prosecutor. It will only make things worse.
It may be time or you to investigate aging him committed for a psych evaluation.

My good God, you're a very supportive, loving spouse, and a great mom.
I hope you can hold it together and get it turned around.

 

[maidmarian4]

Wow, hang in there. You are the glue that will hold your family together.
He needs to request a PD, ASAP. His next court hearing is where he can inform the judge about his recent loss of income and job.

He should also start the process to apply for social security disability.
You need to look into state assistance, food stamps, other aid.

It's so sad, all over three lousy bucks. That's why crime, even crap crime never pays.

He shouldn't meet with the prosecutor. It will only make things worse.
It may be time or you to investigate aging him committed for a psych evaluation.

My good God, you're a very supportive, loving spouse, and a great mom.
I hope you can hold it together and get it turned around.

Thank you for the virtual hug via words.
So should he request a PD at the court date on Monday, or do that beforehand?
I will apply for assistance tonight/tomorrow. I hadn't thought about disability though. Isn't that very hard to receive?
How do I request a psych eval for him? Or does he do that (I'm not sure he would do that though)?

 

[Betty3]

Generally a PD is requested when going to court & explaining to the judge that a lawyer cannot be afforded.

 

[army judge]

Thank you for the virtual hug via words.
So should he request a PD at the court date on Monday, or do that beforehand?

I will apply for assistance tonight/tomorrow. I hadn't thought about disability though. Isn't that very hard to receive?

Disability isn't easy, but he seems to be suffering from something. It does take months to wind its way through the process.
You can take a look here. He's got nothing to lose:

http://www.ssa.gov/disabilityssi/

How do I request a psych eval for him? Or does he do that (I'm not sure he would do that though)?

The prosecutor can request the judge to order such an evaluation.
He can volunteer to have it done. You mentioned he has a mental health issue and is taking meds. He can start by asking his primary care physician how to get a psych eval. It might help explain and understand his aberrant behavior.

Just look at your kids. You're doing it for them. You'll have time down the road to think long term.

 

[maidmarian4]

Thank you again. I'm trying to keep my chin up. So much is coming to me that totally explains his behavior over the years of marriage. It's kind of relieving to know the why, but upsetting to know it's a very challenging disorder - even with meds and therapy.

I'll update on this thread if you'd like on how things go over the upcoming court date(s?).