Deborah Elliott

[Anne]

I was going down I-55 South on my way out of Jackson, MS when I saw a group (about 6 to 8) of police officers chasing people down and giving out tickets. What surprised me was they were from Jackson and I live in Byram. I was stopped by one of them and I honestly thought I was in Byram. When I looked at a map, the Jackson officers were barely within the city limits of Jackson (less than 2 feet). They were tagging people and then having to follow them to the Byram exit because it was the closest. It appeared as though they were targeting non-Jacksonians. I say this because if they really wanted to enforce the speed limit in Jackson then they could have positioned themselves at the McDowell Rd. exit, the Daniel Lake Blvd. exit, the Savanna St. exit, or the Elton Rd. exit. The Elton Rd. exit is the last interstate exit Jackson residents can take before moving on to the next location, Byram, MS. This went on for about 2 weeks. The Byram Police Department received many, many complaints about it with people asking them if Jackson Police had the right to give tickets at the Byram exit. They said yes it was legal because the officer tagged them in Jackson, even though it was less than 2 feet within Jackson city limits. The police officer had the right to follow them to the next exit.

I called the Public Safety Commissioner in Jackson and he said shady ticketing, such as in the example above, was used as a form of retailiation between cities and that he did not condone it. I would like to also add that Jackson is a primarily a minority inner city and Byram is a suburb. Jackson tried to annex Byram several years ago and Byram residents fought the annexation and won the right to their own city.

In traffic court, I plead "not guilty." I have a court date. What can I do to defend myself? Do I stand a chance? I'm really not trying to get out of paying the ticket. I just wanted to draw attention to the shady practice of the Jackson officers and how unfair it seemed. I tried to tell a clerk that but they just told me to plead "not guilty" and gave me a court date. Again, what do I do now?

 

[army judge]

Your argument is one based on emotion, not the law.
The citations were lawfully issued.
Even if it had been 2 miles inside of Jackson's city limits, you're wasting your time defending a traffic citation.
Traffic courts generate money.
I suggest you see if traffic school is an option or DEFERRED ADJUDICATION.
They are sure fire winners.
Traffic court is normally a waste of time and effort.
It's the officer's word over yours.

 

[Anne]

"Your argument is one based on emotion, not the law."

I wouldn't simple call my argument "one based on emotion." No offense, but that almost sounds sexist to me. I'm not the only one who was "concerned" about the shady practice. The Byram Police Department said that they had received "tons" (exact word) of complaints from concerned citizens. I most likely won't win in court but the point was to draw attention to the unfair practice. I didn't want to go to court in the first place but no one would bother to listen me and I had my 2 little girls with me.

However, I do appreciate your legal opinion.

A real example of emotion . . .
Truth is Jackson is now majority black--white flight set in a long time ago. The residents of Jackson probably don't pay their tickets half of the time anyway. You're right in that traffic courts generate money. The only way the city can create some quick revenue is to target non-Jacksonians who live in suburbs and tag them as they pass through on the interstate going home--even if it is less than 2 feet within the city limits of Jackson when they do it. What a waste of police manpower! I'm sure multiple crimes were committed in Jackson that day and those 6 to 8 policemen weren't able to assist. And, believe me, given the crime statistics, Jackson needs all of the policmen they can get patrolling the streets!

 

[army judge]

Anne, my comments have nothing to do with your gender, age, race, income status, citizenship, or ANYTHING other than a response to your question regarding the traffic citations given near the border of a city.

That may be distatesteful to some, or even unfair. It isn't illegal, as the victims were cited within the boundaries of Jakson and stopped in the boundaries of Byram.

As I suggested, look into traffic school, DEFERRED ADJUDICATION, or you can also speak with and retain an attorney. Traffic courts aren't interested in anything but money. They're nothing more than revenue schemes.
Knowing that, obey their laws, avoid any of this mess. Good luck.

 

[disagreeable]

The thing you should be taking away from this experience is "Don't break the law in Jackson". It is not a difficult concept. You can always lobby Byram city council to negotiate a value added fee for tickets given in their city. It won't make those receiving tickets any happier to pay more but it will make Byram a little richer.

 

[Anne]

The thing you should be taking away from this experience is "Don't break the law in Jackson". It is not a difficult concept. You can always lobby Byram city council to negotiate a value added fee for tickets given in their city. It won't make those receiving tickets any happier to pay more but it will make Byram a little richer.

I know I shouldn't break the law in Jackson. Good grief. I wasn't trying to speed in Jackson on purpose. The speed limit changes in Byram as well as other suburbs as you leave Jackson. Of course, I will pay more attention from now on. Geez.

 

[mightymoose]

As you describe it, there does not appear to be anything illegal or even shady about the citations being issued. There is absolutely nothing wrong about being stopped outside of the city limits. you wont beat the citation with the argument you are making here. You may do yourself a favor to look into paying the citation and taking a traffic school course... and stop speeding through Jackson.

Now please excuse me while I queue up some Johnny Cash on Pandora. :yes:

 

[Anne]

As you describe it, there does not appear to be anything illegal or even shady about the citations being issued. There is absolutely nothing wrong about being stopped outside of the city limits. you wont beat the citation with the argument you are making here. You may do yourself a favor to look into paying the citation and taking a traffic school course... and stop speeding through Jackson.

Now please excuse me while I queue up some Johnny Cash on Pandora. :yes:

And, you are excused.

I know there is nothing illegal about what the officers did. As far as shady goes, that's a matter of opinion. And, I was on the interstate--not going through Jackson. I was just passing exits. I have already said I probably won't win. I just wanted to bring attention to the seemingly unfair practice of targeting non-Jacksonsians--a lot of them over a 2 week period. Even the Public Safety Commissioner in Jackson,MS said what the officers did is usually frowned upon and not condoned even though it is legal. Apparently, no one on this forum has dealt with a similiar complaint. I asked for legal advice--tell me something I don't know or chose not to respond. Please.

 

[army judge]

And, you are excused.

I know there is nothing illegal about what the officers did. As far as shady goes, that's a matter of opinion. And, I was on the interstate--not going through Jackson. I was just passing exits. I have already said I probably won't win. I just wanted to bring attention to the seemingly unfair practice of targeting non-Jacksonsians--a lot of them over a 2 week period. Even the Public Safety Commissioner in Jackson,MS said what the officers did is usually frowned upon and not condoned even though it is legal. Apparently, no one on this forum has dealt with a similiar complaint. I asked for legal advice--tell me something I don't know or chose not to respond. Please.

Please, let's all be civil.
That said, there is no legal way to avoid or get out of most traffic citations OTHER than hiring an attorney (who MIGHT get lucky and lessen the blow, but he or she has to be paid); TRAFFIC SCHOOL always works (assuming you complete the course); and DEFERRED ADJUDICATION (its NOT always available, but when it is, its my sure fire winner).

Having held my bar admission for four decades, practiced law, served in our military as a defense counsel, prosecutor, a one time AUSA, a judge, now a retired and part-time jurist, a pro bono advocate for the little guy (like myself, I volunteer dozens of hours helping military members, their families, veterans, and disabled people obtain benefits - I can say the answer and help I provide is the best I can do, but many times it isn't what the person wanted to hear).

Sorry, we didn't offer you the encouragement or the words you sought.
Speaking only for myself, I wish I could offer more, but the law is very deceiving.
Its much like government, a very elusive, deceitful weasel and con against the public.
It wasn't always that way, but sadly this is what our little world has become.
Rascals in congress, the supreme court, most courts, in elected and appointed office, and in the White House, too.

I get your point, madam, but most of our society is too busy crying over the lies being served up over the airwaves of their television sets.

Now, please excuse me while I fire up a big, mild maduro; pour me an adult beverage; retire to my enclosed sun porch here on my Hill Country working cattle ranch; listen to those four legged cash cows (LOL); while enjoying my nightly dose of Jessica Fletcher solving those mysterious murders on "Murder She Wrote", served up weeknights by the Hallmark Movie Channel (soon to be known as the Hallmark Murders and Mysteries). :drinking:

Our lives may occasionally be annoying, but most of us lead lives that don't suck! :cheer:

And to all, a rocking good night! arty:

 

[disagreeable]

Actually, I have dealt with the issue. In several OH jurisdictions, local police would enforce speed limit laws on the interstates as a manner or revenue enhancement. The state noted such activity was causing an increase in accidents in some jurisdictions and passed a law regulating the amount of interstate and number of exits that must be within city limits for them to enforce on the highway. Further, the state highway patrol sent out letters to specific departments regarding the actions of their officers increasing accident rates as a trade off for revenue enhancement.

And, you are excused.

I know there is nothing illegal about what the officers did. As far as shady goes, that's a matter of opinion. And, I was on the interstate--not going through Jackson. I was just passing exits. I have already said I probably won't win. I just wanted to bring attention to the seemingly unfair practice of targeting non-Jacksonsians--a lot of them over a 2 week period. Even the Public Safety Commissioner in Jackson,MS said what the officers did is usually frowned upon and not condoned even though it is legal. Apparently, no one on this forum has dealt with a similiar complaint. I asked for legal advice--tell me something I don't know or chose not to respond. Please.

 

[Anne]

Actually, I have dealt with the issue. In several OH jurisdictions, local police would enforce speed limit laws on the interstates as a manner or revenue enhancement. The state noted such activity was causing an increase in accidents in some jurisdictions and passed a law regulating the amount of interstate and number of exits that must be within city limits for them to enforce on the highway. Further, the state highway patrol sent out letters to specific departments regarding the actions of their officers increasing accident rates as a trade off for revenue enhancement.

Thank you so much. Now this information is helpful. In reference to potential accidents, I'm very surprised no accidents have happened as a result of such heavy patrolling on the intersate near Byram, MS---maybe it did and I'm just not aware. There were so many officers pulling people over at the same exit that it was causing a back-up to occur. This happened several times over a 2 week period. The speed limit changes (increases) as you enter Byram. I'm sure the Jackson policemen knew this and that's why they were positioned on the border (6 to 8 of them on motorcycles). There is no "leaving Jackson sign" but I know now where Jackson city limits end from looking at a map. I have filed complaints with the public safety commissioner and the Office of the Mayor of Jackson, MS. I'm planning to file some additional compliants with other city and state officials. I hope others will do the same. Sometimes citizens have to speak up.

 

[mightymoose]

It sounds to me like the local PD is doing some focused enforcement in a problem area if that many people are being stopped. Saturation patrols are not uncommon.

It does not matter where the city limit ends. Mississippi police officers have authority throughout the state, not just in their local areas. (99-3-3)
Whether they stop someone inside or outside city limits is irrelevant.

Complaining about the officers enforcing traffic laws won't get you anywhere. The actual problem seems to be people exceeding the speed limit and violating traffic laws.

Rather than lodging various dead end complaints, perhaps try a different approach and speak with your local or state legislators about changing the speed limits or otherwise changing the laws so no enforcement is needed. Bring them ideas instead of complaints and you might have better success.

 

[Anne]

It sounds to me like the local PD is doing some focused enforcement in a problem area if that many people are being stopped. Saturation patrols are not uncommon.

It does not matter where the city limit ends. Mississippi police officers have authority throughout the state, not just in their local areas. (99-3-3)
Whether they stop someone inside or outside city limits is irrelevant.

Complaining about the officers enforcing traffic laws won't get you anywhere. The actual problem seems to be people exceeding the speed limit and violating traffic laws.

Rather than lodging various dead end complaints, perhaps try a different approach and speak with your local or state legislators about changing the speed limits or otherwise changing the laws so no enforcement is needed. Bring them ideas instead of complaints and you might have better success.

O.K. O.K. O.K. ---complaints vs ideas---I get it. And, I didn't know police officers could give tickets outside of their jurisdiction--as in having authority throughout the state. The Byram Police Dept. had nothing to do with it. I was under the impression that Byram police handled problems in Byram. One of my ideas is they should put a "leaving Jackson" or "entering Byram" sign where the interstate changes to Byram. I've seen some locations that have signs such as those. And, I was already planning on contacting my state rep.

 

[AvianPundit]

Ask (the court or the police station) for a detailed map of the enforcement jurisdiction for traffic violations of the police force that issued the ticket.

 

[cbg]

Don't speed and you won't have that problem. And of course you're trying to get out of the ticket; do you really think you're fooling anyone here when you say you're not?

You know what's wrong with this country today? No one feels any obligation to take any responsibility for their own actions. If you're speeding, you deserve a ticket no matter what jurisdictions provides it or where they were situated. Grow up and own your own actions instead of trying to push responsibility off on someone else.

 

[AvianPundit]

Don't speed and you won't have that problem. And of course you're trying to get out of the ticket; do you really think you're fooling anyone here when you say you're not?

You know what's wrong with this country today? No one feels any obligation to take any responsibility for their own actions. If you're speeding, you deserve a ticket no matter what jurisdictions provides it or where they were situated. Grow up and own your own actions instead of trying to push responsibility off on someone else.

I'm really not trying to step on your toes here but respectfully, I disagree--not with the point you're making but with the assumption that she's just trying to get out of the ticket because she doesn't want to pay up.

Unless the original poster admitted to the officer that she was indeed speeding, it's still just an allegation. She did not even say in any of her posts whether or not she was actually speeding.

 

[cbg]

But she has never denied speeding. In my experience, posters who really weren't speeding will say so, as will posters who were but think they've found a way out. Posters who bypass the whole question almost invariably not only were, but know they were, and are trying on their defense to see what holes there are.