Confused About Probate Estate Value

[OnSolidGround]

Jurisdiction

California

My cousin passed in December of 2018 and her estate is in probate in Los Angeles. It is still in the control of the Public Guardian. The heirs on the Service List received the Notice of Petition to Administer Estate in June of 2019. The Estimated Value of the Property of the Estate is listed in excess of a million dollars.

My cousin had cash in 12 bank accounts. Eight of them had Payable On Death beneficiaries. Four of them did not. Since neither the public guardian nor the public administrator will provide any information we as heirs would like to know if the estate amount listed in the petition includes all 12 accounts or just the 4 that did not have POD beneficiaries. Will the entire million-plus dollars (minus creditors, taxes, fees, etc) be disbursed to the heirs on the Service List? Are all 12 accounts part of the probate process or are the accounts with designated beneficiaries disbursed prior to the probate process beginning?

To be clear, we are not asking about the probate process or how it works. We are specifically asking if the beneficiaries of the POD accounts received their funds right away and THEN the probate process for the remaining four accounts commenced. We are grateful for any help you can provide.

 

[adjusterjack]

we as heirs would like to know if the estate amount listed in the petition includes all 12 accounts or just the 4 that did not have POD beneficiaries.

The 8 accounts that have POD beneficiaries are not part of the estate and haven't been since the moment of death. The money became the property of the beneficiaries at that moment. That's what Pay on Death means. The beneficiaries of each account should be able to take the death certificate to the respective banks, fill out some forms and get the money.

neither the public guardian nor the public administrator will provide any information

If you are saying that they aren't revealing the location of the accounts and the account numbers then somebody is going to have to get a court order compelling them to do so.

 

[Tax Counsel]

. Since neither the public guardian nor the public administrator will provide any information we as heirs would like to know if the estate amount listed in the petition includes all 12 accounts or just the 4 that did not have POD beneficiaries.

The probate estate does not include financial accounts with pay on death (POD) designations. POD accounts are simply transferred or paid out to the beneficiary once the beneficiary satisfies the financial institution of the death of the account holder. So the accounting provided by the public guardian should not list those POD accounts.

To be clear, we are not asking about the probate process or how it works. We are specifically asking if the beneficiaries of the POD accounts received their funds right away and THEN the probate process for the remaining four accounts commenced. We are grateful for any help you can provide.

It's not a matter of one having to occur before the other. The probate might start before the POD accounts are paid out to the beneficiaries. Or the POD accounts might be paid out before probate starts. Which way it goes just depends on when the personal representative files for probate and when the POD beneficiaries get around to claiming from the financial institutions the accounts that were given them. The two are independent of each other.

 

[OnSolidGround]

The 8 accounts that have POD beneficiaries are not part of the estate and haven't been since the moment of death. The money became the property of the beneficiaries at that moment. That's what Pay on Death means. The beneficiaries of each account should be able to take the death certificate to the respective banks, fill out some forms and get the money.



If you are saying that they aren't revealing the location of the accounts and the account numbers then somebody is going to have to get a court order compelling them to do so.

So the million dollars that is stated as the estate value on the probate petition is the amount that is under probate and does not include the POD accounts?

 

[Zigner]

So the million dollars that is stated as the estate value on the probate petition is the amount that is under probate and does not include the POD accounts?

That's how it should work, but the only way you'll know for sure is if you review the probate file.

 

[OnSolidGround]

That's how it should work, but the only way you'll know for sure is if you review the probate file.[/QUOTE

Thank you so much. Much appreciated.

 

[zddoodah]

her estate . . . is . . . in the control of the Public Guardian.

Why?

The heirs on the Service List received the Notice of Petition to Administer Estate in June of 2019.

Are you one of the heirs? Did your cousin have a will?

My cousin had cash in 12 bank accounts. Eight of them had Payable On Death beneficiaries. Four of them did not. Since neither the public guardian nor the public administrator will provide any information we as heirs would like to know if the estate amount listed in the petition includes all 12 accounts or just the 4 that did not have POD beneficiaries.

The estate would not include money in accounts with POD designations. Who was the designated POD on the account? Have you asked that person or persons if he/she/they have gone to the bank(s) to claim the money? Has the personal representative of the estate filed an inventory and accounting? That should have happened at least once since the commencement of probate two years ago.

Will the entire million-plus dollars (minus creditors, taxes, fees, etc) be disbursed to the heirs on the Service List?

The job of the personal representative is to: (1) take possession or control of the assets of the deceased; (2) pay estate debt (including costs of administration) using liquid assets and liquidate non-liquid assets if needed to pay debt; and (3) distribute whatever is left to those entitled to it under the will or the intestate succession law.

So the million dollars that is stated as the estate value on the probate petition is the amount that is under probate and does not include the POD accounts?

No one here has any conceivable way of knowing how the unknown person(s) who prepared and signed the petition arrived at the number stated on the petition. All we can tell you is that the numbers in item 3 on the petition should not include assets of the deceased that are not part of the probate estate.