Civil Suit Over Vehicle Deposit (PA)

jrlew87

New Member
Jurisdiction
Pennsylvania
I've sold probably ten cars in my life and went about it the same way every time with a deposit and then the ultimate purchase of the vehicle. But then this happened...

Buyer gave a deposit of $100 towards the purchase of a $4,200 vehicle I'm selling. A relative of mine was available to let the buyer take it for a test drive and ultimately received the deposit on my behalf (because I was at work). A receipt was given on my relatives letterhead for her business that she owns (just because it's the first piece of paper she could find). The receipt has the buyer's name, the depsoit amount and the vehicle purchase price. I clearly stated to the buyer several times that the car is under my name and if they're comfortable taking it on a test drive and giving a deposit to my relative then that's fine with me. The buyer stated that works for them.

A day later I called the buyer and told them I couldn't locate the title and I am having a new one sent from the state and it will take 7-10 days. The buyer stated that will be fine with them. Six days later the buyer calls and gets into an argument with me and states that they don't feel comfortable with the situation and want to back out of the deal and want their money back. I told the buyer that I took the car off the front lawn and off of the internet with the intention of selling it to her. I turned down 2 other potential buyers that called about the car because I figured the car was sold to the buyer. I told the buyer that's the whole reason behind a deposit. They threatened to take me to civil court over the issue and ended the phone call. Two days later I received the title in the mail.

Three days later I tried contacting the seller to give the money back and they would not call me back or text me back. Two more weeks go by and my relative gets served with a civil suit.

Yes I was arrogant at first but then I offered the money back. I feel that I tried to do the right thing and now I'm being sued. I have the receipt as proof that the buyer was going to buy the vehicle and text messages and phone call times that I tried to give the buyer back the money but they obviously refused and now they're suing for $500 plus the court costs. I think I might send a certified letter with a return request and a cashier's check in the buyers name to the buyer. If they refuse that then I feel that I've done everything except go to the buyers house, which is ridiculous and might get the police involved. Also I did file a complaint with the local Police for a threat from the buyer. The buyer stated "I know where you live" and "I'll take down your relatives business" in a very threatening manner. I was nothing but nice to this person and this is how I get treated. I feel that some people get thrills from this kind of thing.

Advice is needed, thanks in advance.
 
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All I can say is you have placed yourself in a position of great legal exposure.

Many of these kinds of wizrds/apps exist:
..
..
State Bill of Sale Forms Made Easy! | BillofSaleWizard.com
..
..
You should have used one.
The receipt, not a bill of sale that you describe must follow your state's laws:
..
..
In PA:
..
..
..
If You're Selling a Car in PA

1= Print and sign your name in the presence of a notary on the back of the title (in Section A); the buyer must do the same.
2= Record the vehicle's odometer reading.
3= Be sure you remove your license plates from the vehicle.
..
..
Selling or buying a car in Pennsylvania requires more than just a check and a handshake. It's a process of forms and signatures that the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation (PennDOT) requires for subsequent titling and registration purposes.

One overlooked signature could cause you a bureaucratic migraine that takes weeks to cure. Making the effort to assure all papers and signatures are in order is time well spent.
...
...
In Pennsylvania, as in many states, you are required to furnish a title when registering a vehicle―so make sure you get the title from the seller when you buy a car. The registration papers are not quite as necessary, although it makes the process much easier.

If you're the buyer, please use caution when someone tries selling you a vehicle without the title. This is usually a red flag that could signal the car is stolen or salvaged. It would be wise to look for another vehicle.

If you want to sell a car for which you've lost the title, refer to our Buying and Selling FAQs section for information about how to apply for a duplicate. Once you have the duplicate title in hand, you can proceed with the sale.
...
...
Pennsylvania DOT Regulations for Selling Cars | DMV.org
...
...
You might get lucky and lightening could strike in your bottle, but I doubt it.
Your state wants to make sure taxes are collected and the state gets its cut.
Many states want to get paid, too.
If you send that check, you could end up making thins worse for yourself.
You've put yourself in a very precarious position.
If you're going to operate as a business, because what you're doing isn't private seller to private buyer, you'd better learn the law.
...
...
http://www.dot.state.pa.us/public/dvspubsforms/BMV/BMV Fact Sheets/fs-buysell.pdf
...
...
BUYING And selling a VEHICLE in pennsylvania

The following information will assist you with the proper procedures when buying a vehicle in Pennsylvania. The buyer and seller should meet at the office of a notary public, tag service, or motor vehicle dealer to ensure the title application is completed correctly. If the car is financed, the certificate of title in your name will be mailed to the lienholder. If the vehicle is not financed, the certificate of title in your name will be sent directly to you.
...
...
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE: MOTOR VEHICLE UNDERSTATED VALUE PROGRAM

When purchasing or selling used vehicles (including motorcycles) in Pennsylvania, many taxpayers are unaware that sales tax due to the Department of Revenue is a percentage of the fair market value of a vehicle, rather than a percentage of the purchase price. When a purchase price is set considerably lower than fair market value – as often happens in transactions between family members – the PA Department of Revenue has the authority to review the transaction to determine and collect the correct amount of sales tax due. For more information, please visit the Motor Vehicle Understated Value Program page on the PA Department of Revenue's website.
..
..
Motor Vehicle Understated Value Program - Verification of Fair Market Value
 
I understand all the legal terms. Neither of us did it 100% right. On the other hand who's to say I didn't return the money to them already and they still sue me?
In court I feel that it is still their word against mine. And if the buyer wants to get technical about it then I could always say they never asked to see the title prior to putting down a deposit (ignorant on my part but if that's how the buyer wants to play it, then so be it).




All I can say is you have placed yourself in a position of great legal exposure.

Many of these kinds of wizrds/apps exist:
..
..
State Bill of Sale Forms Made Easy! | BillofSaleWizard.com
..
..
You should have used one.
The receipt, not a bill of sale that you describe must follow your state's laws:
..
..
In PA:
..
..
..
If You're Selling a Car in PA

1= Print and sign your name in the presence of a notary on the back of the title (in Section A); the buyer must do the same.
2= Record the vehicle's odometer reading.
3= Be sure you remove your license plates from the vehicle.
..
..
Selling or buying a car in Pennsylvania requires more than just a check and a handshake. It's a process of forms and signatures that the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation (PennDOT) requires for subsequent titling and registration purposes.

One overlooked signature could cause you a bureaucratic migraine that takes weeks to cure. Making the effort to assure all papers and signatures are in order is time well spent.
...
...
In Pennsylvania, as in many states, you are required to furnish a title when registering a vehicle―so make sure you get the title from the seller when you buy a car. The registration papers are not quite as necessary, although it makes the process much easier.

If you're the buyer, please use caution when someone tries selling you a vehicle without the title. This is usually a red flag that could signal the car is stolen or salvaged. It would be wise to look for another vehicle.

If you want to sell a car for which you've lost the title, refer to our Buying and Selling FAQs section for information about how to apply for a duplicate. Once you have the duplicate title in hand, you can proceed with the sale.
...
...
Pennsylvania DOT Regulations for Selling Cars | DMV.org
...
...
You might get lucky and lightening could strike in your bottle, but I doubt it.
Your state wants to make sure taxes are collected and the state gets its cut.
Many states want to get paid, too.
If you send that check, you could end up making thins worse for yourself.
You've put yourself in a very precarious position.
If you're going to operate as a business, because what you're doing isn't private seller to private buyer, you'd better learn the law.
...
...
http://www.dot.state.pa.us/public/dvspubsforms/BMV/BMV Fact Sheets/fs-buysell.pdf
...
...
BUYING And selling a VEHICLE in pennsylvania

The following information will assist you with the proper procedures when buying a vehicle in Pennsylvania. The buyer and seller should meet at the office of a notary public, tag service, or motor vehicle dealer to ensure the title application is completed correctly. If the car is financed, the certificate of title in your name will be mailed to the lienholder. If the vehicle is not financed, the certificate of title in your name will be sent directly to you.
...
...
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE: MOTOR VEHICLE UNDERSTATED VALUE PROGRAM

When purchasing or selling used vehicles (including motorcycles) in Pennsylvania, many taxpayers are unaware that sales tax due to the Department of Revenue is a percentage of the fair market value of a vehicle, rather than a percentage of the purchase price. When a purchase price is set considerably lower than fair market value – as often happens in transactions between family members – the PA Department of Revenue has the authority to review the transaction to determine and collect the correct amount of sales tax due. For more information, please visit the Motor Vehicle Understated Value Program page on the PA Department of Revenue's website.
..
..
Motor Vehicle Understated Value Program - Verification of Fair Market Value
 
I understand all the legal terms. Neither of us did it 100% right. On the other hand who's to say I didn't return the money to them already and they still sue me?
In court I feel that it is still their word against mine. And if the buyer wants to get technical about it then I could always say they never asked to see the title prior to putting down a deposit (ignorant on my part but if that's how the buyer wants to play it, then so be it).

Dude, I'm just some ANONYMOUS mope, or dude on the 'net.
I have no dog in your fight, nor am I the person or persons you will be held to answer to for any legal transgressions.
You are an adult.
You are capable of not losing your mittens.
You can tell anyone anything you wish.
If the state comes knocking, that's on you.
If the judge doesn't believe you, that's on you.
If the other party sues you, not my circus, not my monkeys, mate.

I didn't ask you for an explanation, so I don't care what you say, or to whom you say it.

Again, much success, and continued good luck no matter what you decide to do.
 
Dude, I'm just some ANONYMOUS mope, or dude on the 'net.
I have no dog in your fight, nor am I the person or persons you will be held to answer to for any legal transgressions.
You are an adult.
You are capable of not losing your mittens.
You can tell anyone anything you wish.
If the state comes knocking, that's on you.
If the judge doesn't believe you, that's on you.
If the other party sues you, not my circus, not my monkeys, mate.

I didn't ask you for an explanation, so I don't care what you say, or to whom you say it.

Again, much success, and continued good luck no matter what you decide to do.


Wow. No need to get defensive. All i asked for is advice. I never once say anything derogatory towards your response. If you don't care then why respond? I asked politely for advice, never demanded anything and now I have to defend myself over this?
 
I honestly just want to know if it's a good idea to send a certified letter with return receipt ans cashiers check to the buyer before the court date. Would the judge rule in my favor?
 
I honestly just want to know if it's a good idea to send a certified letter with return receipt ans cashiers check to the buyer before the court date. Would the judge rule in my favor?

I have practiced law for decades.
I would never advise any client to attempt to settle a lawsuit based upon the facts you recited.
Why?
Because sending such a check TODAY based upon the alleged statements of the buyer in the past, could be seen as an admission of guilt.
Such an admission of guilt (or consciousness of guilt as termed in the law) might not affect any civil lawsuit, but could be used against you if the PA tax authorities, or DMV get involved and pursue criminal sanctions against you based upon what transpires in a civil lawsuit.

However, what I've just posted shouldn't be considered LEGAL advice.
In fact, it isn't advice in any shape, manner, or form.
It is my recitation of what I have done for people who did possess an attorney-client relationship with me.
 
Well you say that your relative was served with the suit not you. But since there is a suit, I don't think you should try to resolve it now by sending a check. In my opinion, that window of opportunity has past. But then I'm no lawyer. I suggest you and your relative should visit one asap.
 
I have practiced law for decades.
I would never advise any client to attempt to settle a lawsuit based upon the facts you recited.
Why?
Because sending such a check TODAY based upon the alleged statements of the buyer in the past, could be seen as an admission of guilt.
Such an admission of guilt (or consciousness of guilt as termed in the law) might not affect any civil lawsuit, but could be used against you if the PA tax authorities, or DMV get involved and pursue criminal sanctions against you based upon what transpires in a civil lawsuit.

However, what I've just posted shouldn't be considered LEGAL advice.
In fact, it isn't advice in any shape, manner, or form.
It is my recitation of what I have done for people who did possess an attorney-client relationship with me.



Ok on the flip side what if I had sent the letter before being served? And what's with the DMV and the tax laws? I don't see how they're involved? And I honestly want to send a check just to get this crazy person off my back and move on. I honestly don't think I am guilty of anything and I would tell the judge the same thing because I truly feel that way. Sorry I'm uneducated on this matter obviously. Thanks for your time again.
 
Ok on the flip side what if I had sent the letter before being served? And what's with the DMV and the tax laws? I don't see how they're involved? And I honestly want to send a check just to get this crazy person off my back and move on. I honestly don't think I am guilty of anything and I would tell the judge the same thing because I truly feel that way. Sorry I'm uneducated on this matter obviously. Thanks for your time again.


You DIDN'T send the letter before a lawsuit was filed.
In my legal opinion, such a letter might not impact you, but it could impact your relative.
I understand you want to fix this, but today isn't the time to fix it.
There will be time to settle the lawsuit, after someone has responded to the lawsuit.
As suggested, you need to discuss your options with a PA licensed attorney.
I'd avoid using the uneducated line, as you admit to selling at least TEN such vehicles over time.
Frankly, the less you say, the better off you'll be.
A PA attorney can elucidate further for you on that point, too.
You can generally talk to a lawyer for 20-30 minutes at no cost for the initial consultation.
I suggest you see at least two PA licensed lawyers in your county.
That way a PA licensed lawyer can explain to you the risks and exposure you could be facing.
Frankly, it may be your relative with more exposure than you, mate, as you had no involvement directly in the original transaction.
But, I'll defer to a PA licensed attorney to reveal the specifics in your state.
I do know that your state is very aggressive in collecting taxes, even for a car sale from mother to daughter.
Again, good luck, and I hope you can get this settled with no pain, or financial loss.
 
This is aggravating. I feel like some people live for this type of thing. I'm willing to bet this isn't their first lawsuit. I guess I'll talk to a lawyer and just tell the truth in court because I have nothing to hide.
 
Ten cars in your lifetime? I've sold at least 50 and learned a long time ago NEVER take a deposit. Somebody wants the vehicle they bring the whole amount in cash when they pick up the vehicle and I make it clear that, until then, I sell it to the first person who comes along with cash.

I think I saw this post on another legal website recently. It that wasn't you then I'm telling you the same thing I tell everybody. NEVER take a deposit.
 
Ten cars in your lifetime? I've sold at least 50 and learned a long time ago NEVER take a deposit. Somebody wants the vehicle they bring the whole amount in cash when they pick up the vehicle and I make it clear that, until then, I sell it to the first person who comes along with cash.

I think I saw this post on another legal website recently. It that wasn't you then I'm telling you the same thing I tell everybody. NEVER take a deposit.


Yea I I think I read that same post when I did some research on the matter. I understand that now. But what's done is done. Just asking for help on the situation that has advanced to a civil suit.
 
Just asking for help on the situation that has advanced to a civil suit.

OK. I'd be happy to help.

It's too late to send the check because the lawsuit is in play. If you sent it, no matter how, and don't address dismissal of the lawsuit with his consent, then the lawsuit goes to default judgment for more money than you sent.

One thing you haven't cleared up, though, is whose name is on the lawsuit as defendant?

If it's your relative then the lawsuit has to be responded to by your relative, not you, because you aren't named.

If you are named as defendant, then you have to respond to it properly.

Let's clear that up.

Do you have the summons and complaint in front of you. If yes, answer the question.

If not, go get it so we can confer intelligently about it.

Nothing worse here than trying to help somebody without proper information.
 
OK. I'd be happy to help.

It's too late to send the check because the lawsuit is in play. If you sent it, no matter how, and don't address dismissal of the lawsuit with his consent, then the lawsuit goes to default judgment for more money than you sent.

One thing you haven't cleared up, though, is whose name is on the lawsuit as defendant?

If it's your relative then the lawsuit has to be responded to by your relative, not you, because you aren't named.

If you are named as defendant, then you have to respond to it properly.

Let's clear that up.

Do you have the summons and complaint in front of you. If yes, answer the question.

If not, go get it so we can confer intelligently about it.

Nothing worse here than trying to help somebody without proper information.

Lawsuit is in relatives name.
 
Next questions:

Was the suit filed in magistrate court or common pleas?

Does the summons require that a written answer be filed by a deadline date or does it just give a date that the Defendant has to be in court?
 
Next questions:

Was the suit filed in magistrate court or common pleas?

Does the summons require that a written answer be filed by a deadline date or does it just give a date that the Defendant has to be in court?

It was filed at the local magistrate. There's a date set for January to appear.
 
Your relative is the defendant. Your relative must appear or risk a default judgment against him. Your relative's defense is that he was acting as your agent and is not responsible for acting on your instructions.

You cannot speak for him or represent him but he can call you as a witness and you can testify in his behalf.

He can then ask for a dismissal.

The plaintiff then will either have to file a lawsuit against you or ask permission of the court to amend his complaint. What happens after that is anybody's guess.

I noticed that you posted your question on two other legal websites. I doubt that you'll get much different advice on them.
 
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