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Cases where Internation inmates pending trial/pre-trial released on bail?

Discussion in 'Probation, Parole, Incarceration' started by Justin13601, Dec 24, 2017.

  1. Justin13601

    Justin13601 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Jurisdiction:
    Delaware
    I was just wondering where and how I would be able to find previous cases where criminals who have a difference citizenship from the US, who were arrested in the US and deemed a flight risk, yet was still released for bail?

    I've done some research and can't seem to find anything directly.

    I want specifically people who were issued a detention order, yet was released and the order lifted upon appeal.

    If anybody can point me in the right direction, or suggest a way I can find this information, that would be great. If you also know some examples from the top of your head, it would be appreciated if you could also leave them here.
     
  2. Highwayman

    Highwayman Well-Known Member

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    Why do you care?

    If they are "deemed" a flight risk chances are they wouldn't be released on bail.
     
  3. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    You're posting from Mississuaga, Ontario in lovely Canada; not Delaware in the even more lovelier United States of America; where we've been granted some very satisfying TAX CUTS, lessening federal government thefts.

    I'm wondering why I should use my amazing legal skills to assist a deceiver on one of the holiest nights in all Christendom?

    Merry Christmas, sweet, little, blessed, Baby Jesus.
     
    hrforme likes this.
  4. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    Because he or she is such a cute little koala bear?
     
  5. Justin13601

    Justin13601 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Wow guys, thanks for that. Ill have you know that I am a 16 year old who is trying to help his father who was unreasonably detained in Philadelphia, accused for a white collar crime that he absolutely didn't do. Because he is Canadian, he is being detained in prison, spending time there for over 4 months now, pending pretrial or trial, as well as for motions to dismiss. He can't come back home for Christmas, while my skster is heartbroken from missing her father. You know, I do really appreciate your help to make everything better. We retained a couple pretty bad lawyers who didn't do their due diligence in defending for us when we appealed the detention order, so we're trying to use some case laws and pro se(?) our way out. I haven't seen my dad in over 4 months, while he missed some very key events in my life, including me getting my drivers license and doing the SAT o get into a US college.

    Again, thanks for your helpful responses, I'll make sure to keep them near my heart when I cry myself to sleep. Merry Christmas you all of you and your happy families.
     
  6. Justin13601

    Justin13601 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Now that you know why I CARE, maybe you can help me. I know there are cases where international inmates, who WERE deemed flight risks, were released on bail, albeit with some harsh conditions. I just need some cases to provide them to our lawyers or my dad, so that we can fight using case law.

    Merry Christmas.
    Hope your family is doing much better than ours.

    Thanks.
     
  7. Highwayman

    Highwayman Well-Known Member

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    Your father is much better off getting another attorney (if it's REALLY a problem with attorneys) then for a bunch of strangers on the Internet trying to use Google to find information that you can find out as well.

    As far as I'm concerned, professional legal counsel is really the way to deal with this, NOT an Internet forum.

    While your desire to help your father is admirable, I'm not sure that you're the best person to judge whether an attorney is doing his job the right way.

    Since Canada is a land neighbor and the border is wide open, it would seem like a VERY remote possibility for an alleged criminal who is a Canadian citizen to be released on bail. I wouldn't be so quick to blame an attorney for that.
     
  8. Justin13601

    Justin13601 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Yeah Unfortunately I think you're right. However, it's too difficult to explain how bad our attorneys are. We had to switch twice and just had the worse luck. I'm not the one judging, rather other lawyers and previous inmates who had won their case through pro se (I think it's called).

    Even if nothing is related to our case, surely people here can at least direct me to the right place where I can find examples for these situations? I know for a fact there are cases where international inmates were released, albeit rough conditions. I just want the exact cases so we can cite them. Honestly I didn't have to mention our case at all, it could've been just a general question for a research project...
     
  9. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Merry Christmas, Justin:

    Now that you've offered an explanation, and because its Christmas, I'll see what I can offer to assist you.


    If your father is incarcerated by US federal authorities pursuant to an allegation regarding a breach of US laws, he'll probably NOT get to make bail.

    Most nations are reluctant to allow a a foreign national to be released from custody t return to his or her native land.

    Had he been a US citizen, or US Green Card holder, bail would more than likely have been set.

    If a foreign national charged with a violation of US law were to be released on bail, he or she could potentially abscond to a nation that has no treaty with the US to allow for extradition back to US soil.

    These countries have NO extradition treaty with the US:

    Afghanistan, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Armenia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bosnia and

    Herzegovina, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, the Central

    African Republic, Chad, Mainland China, Comoros, Congo (Kinshasa), Congo (Brazzaville), Djibouti, Equatorial

    Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Indonesia, Ivory Coast, Kazakhstan,

    Kosovo, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Macedonia, Madagascar, Maldives, Mali,

    Marshall Islands,Mauritania, Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique,

    Namibia, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Rwanda, Samoa, São Tomé & Príncipe, Saudi Arabia,

    Senegal, Serbia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates,

    Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Vatican, Vietnam and Yemen.

    Your father is allowed to request another lawyer, if he believes his current attorney isn't serving him well.

    That usually is allowed ONLY to happen once or twice.


    Pro se efforts in US federal courts are usually net with failure, although allowed.

    Okay, answer these questions, and these questions alone.
    Don't provide commentary, just factual answers.
    I'll research the case, and get back to you, sooner or later.

    US federal criminal and procedural law is very complex, making a lawyer essential.

    What are the EXACT crimes the federal government has alleged him to have committed?

    What is his first, middle, and last name?

    What is his date of birth, or his age as you read this?

    What is his race? I only need Caucasian, Negroid, Asian, or other.

    In what court is this matter being heard?

    What date was your father arrested?
     
  10. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    What makes you think he is unreasonably detained?
    Is he being held without bail or can he just not afford the bail?
    Is it is regarding the bail amount has he had a bail reduction hearing?
     
  11. Justin13601

    Justin13601 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Hi,

    Thank you for your honest reply. I probably didn't explain myself very clearly. I understand the foreign nationals are very difficult to make bail, almost impossible. A detention order was placed when he was initially arrested. There was a bail hearingin the court nearby, and like you've probably forseen, it did not go in our favour. He was the transported to Philadelphia FDC where our first lawyer appealed the detention order. Because we've had not done enough research on attorneys, we made a mistake in retaining him, and as his english-proficiency was not as good as the typical defense attorney, we were not able to make acceptable bail terms with the government. This occurred twice. The government lost confidence in us. We terminated the present attorney and retained 2 more that was bundled together. 2 more bail hearings occurred, one which was 'adjourned' by the judge so that the government and us can come to agreeable terms, as well as find a third party custodian. The second hearing also failed, reason being the judge had asked case examples where foreign nationals had been bailed out, hence why I am asking this question. We provided a list to our attorneys prior to this hearing, however I guess you can consider them "cocky" in that they didn't need our help nor the citations. The result was my dad detained for over 4 months with no progress, while the governement continues to make discovery. The pro se thing I mentioned was not meant for us to fight the enire case by ourselfs, rather only the bail portions, where we may hire a paralegal for help, along with one of our current attorneys to argue for us. But ultimately, we need those case citations. If you want, I can provide what we have already; I'm not sure if they'd help much...

    We have decided not to switch attorneys again, as we cannot afford to, both financially and emotionally. I'm sure you're aware that federa criminal cases are extremely expensive to fight.

    Few things:
    -We have no direct ties to the delaware state.
    -We have a property in florida, in which we will add onto the bail
    -We have the capability to pay bail bond
    -We have third prty custodians
    -Found suitable housing and arranged agreements with the property owner
    -Testimonies about things that ensure he is not a flight risk.


    We've attempted to meet the conditions that the government proposed, however they never show any good faith and always change it last minute, whether it be not enough cash bond, or the third-party custodian is not suitable.

    We've also surrendered my father's passport, rendering any legal way of traveling back to Canada impossible.


    To answer your questions:

    His indictment says he is charged with 1 count of 18 USC 1832, conspiracy to theft of trade secrets.

    Jerry Jindong Xu

    48

    Asian

    Philadelphia District Court? I'm not entirely sure right now, Ill get back to you if this is crucial.

    August 22nd 2017 in Syracuse by FBI



    Please note that the government issued a search warrant on our property in Canada, pursuant to the mutual criminal matters assistance act or something. Our case is quite complicated, with jurisdiction (our motion to dismiss) and others. The government has offerred a guilty plea, with no jail time, however we've already served 4 months.


    Please tell me if I provided too much detail on here, I'll remove it immediately. I'm not sure how the US government operates, so I don't know if anything here will cause any harm to our case.

    I can also provide other details of his arrest, the search warrant, the battle in Canada, the possible spark that led to the former employer "getting-back-at-us" and sue us in the US, the items seized, what my father did when he was employed, and our interactions with the FBi.

    My father worked for an independent registered foreign subsidiary of a company headquartered in Delaware. We suspect, with mutiple people suspecting it too, that the former employer charged us in the US as they couldn't do any physical harm to us in Canada, as the theft of trade secrets is of a civil matter, rather than a federal criminal matter in the US.

    We may also be paranoid, but an inmate who became good friends with my father, (won his case through pro se, but lost when government appealed. He is appealing again) says that our current lawyers may be making a "deal" with the government behind our backs, to convice us to plea guilty, in exchange that the defense wins another more important case. We just found out that one of our attorneys previously had fought against our current prosecutor, so i wouldnt be surprised if there was something abnormal going on in there.

    Anyways, thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me, we really appreciate any help right now.

    Merry Christmas and God bless you and your family.

    Best,
    J
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  12. Justin13601

    Justin13601 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Our case is quite complicated. There was a detention order issued, and we appealed. Because of poor actions from our side, the court has denied all attempts so far. The last one being our failure to provide case examples where foreign nationals were released on bail. We can afford to pay bail, and also we have a property in the US that we whave added on as "collateral"(?).

    We think he is unreasonably detained because 1) his crimes are not violent, 2) the alleged conduct was committed in Canada, so the US should not have jurisdiction, or at least not full jurisdiction, 3) multiple testimonies certified that he is not a flight risk, as he has settled down with a family, whose kids both wants to attend college in the US. We indicated that we have no interest in ruining everything we worked so hard for, just to flee from a charge that we don't even think should be charged upon us. 4) We met all conditions the government set forth, yet they show no signs of good faith and change them last minute; among others.


    The judge had almost agreed to lift the detention order, had our attorneys just sealed the deal by providing the case law citations, but they failed to do so. If you think about it, if your attorneys say that there has never been a foreign national that was released, why would the judge release you?

    Anyways thank you, and happy holidays. God bless you for taking the time to respond.

    Best,
    J
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  13. Justin13601

    Justin13601 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Hi army judge,

    First of all, Happy New Year to you and your family.

    May I please get an update on anything regarding our family's case? I just want to make sure that you are still able to continue helping us in any way, so I can still keep my hopes up. I do not want to maintain false hope only to be ignored and never replied again. I have been very anxious and cannot wait for your reply.

    Thank you once again,
    J
     
  14. Highwayman

    Highwayman Well-Known Member

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    Army Judge is not your personal attorney. He said he'll get to it when he can.

    You should not be getting your hopes up about anything but getting your father an attorney.
     
  15. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Justin, I might get visited by some dudes in black suits for looking at this stuff, mate.
    It appears that someone has ALLEGEDLY been naughty.
    I must be very careful what I post here.
    It is public records, but much of this is sealed or redacted.
    As my friend, HighwayMan said above, your dad needs an attorney, assuming he's unsatisfied with the ones he has retained.
    The way this stuff is posted, this is the work of JTTF, or another super secret financial crimes or terrorist agency!!!

    Justin, here is what I'm finding: (in Chronological order, sort of)

    Full docket text:
    ORDER granting [7] Motion to Seal Case as to Sealed Defendant (1). Signed by Judge Christopher J. Burke on 9/5/2017

    Arrest of Sealed Defendant in Northern District of New York. (kjk)[1:17-mj-00173-UNA *SEALED*]

    10/10/17: Limited Unsealing of The Case File as to Jerry Jindong XU.

    01/03/18: Emergency MOTION to Stay of Service of Documents related to Canadian Legal Proceeding by Jerry Jindong XU. (Ibrahim, Jeremy)

    01/03.18: RESPONSE to Motion by USA as to Jerry Jindong XU re [40] Emergency MOTION to Stay of Service of Documents related to Canadian Legal Proceeding (Attachments: # (1) Exhibit, # (2) Exhibit, # (3) Exhibit, # (4) Exhibit)(McCall, Jamie)

    I will withhold an opinion on these matters.
    This is very serious, and as best as I can ascertain, Canada has something they wish to pursue against this defendant.

    I suggest none of your family members speak to your father about his case on the telephone, or in any written correspondence.
    All written correspondence (except privileged materials) are read by jail authorities, some is copied.
    All telephone calls, except privileged calls, are recorded.

    From this point forward discuss only family matters, health, education, etc...

    DON'T discuss any aspect of this case, other than to say we are investigating HOW we can hire new counsel, if he wishes to pursue that matter.

    This matter now involves our MLAT, Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty with Canada.
    Canadian authorities have searched one of defendant's properties in Canada.
    It would seem that Canada is (or will be) attempting to serve documents upon defendant pursuant to criminal charges that MIGHT be forthcoming from Canada.

    I will not comment on the nature of the charges, except to say they appear to be felonious in nature, and there are multiple charges in the pipeline.

    With that, I have no further comment on this case.
     
  16. Highwayman

    Highwayman Well-Known Member

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    Well then maybe your family should be looking at retaining these "other lawyers".

    Seems as though your father is tied into some very, very bad stuff. As I said in an earlier post, if I was you I'd be more concerned about a conviction and lengthy prison sentence then with a few months incarceration with no bail.
     
  17. Justin13601

    Justin13601 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I'm sorry but where did you get the JTTF part?? Only the FBI is involved, are they not? We are aware of the Canada things, as we are fighting them too. There are no charges yet but even if they are, trade secrets are a civil matter so it wouldn't be as bad as the US. I know if the MLAT, but surely they can't charge you for the evidence found during the assistance to the US?
     
  18. Highwayman

    Highwayman Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Army Judge is going to be providing any more details on your father's case. Your father needs attorneys in both the US and Canada.

    Maybe you think you know everything that's going on but it doesn't seem likely. Your father needs professional legal counsel. You should be paying attention and following the advice Army Judge already provided. That's it.
     
  19. Justin13601

    Justin13601 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Again we have counsel in the US and are looking for one in Canada. What's so wrong with me getting to know more of this case? Me knowing anything will not affect this case whatsoever as there is no chance for us to fight ouselves with professional legal help. Is it that difficult to get some information?


    In no comment have I said anything about knowing everything. Clearly I don't if I am relying on an online forum for some information. The OP about case law is just one small piece of the puzzel to get bail. I know it is not the most important thing right now, and as you said, the trial and possible conviction should be a top priority. I agree with that, and that's what our lawyers are doing right now. But that doesn't stop me from getting more information about the case...
     
  20. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    The information you seek is not here.
    The information you got was because someone went way above and beyond just because.

    The help you need and information you seek will be gained through the attorneys retained to work the case. You are unlikely to find the sort of case history you seen by browsing internet forums. You need someone who is paid to do very specific research.
     

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