The short version:
[We are now pro se Plaintiffs, having dismissed "full service law firm" after they made more of a mess of things. Supposed Tenant went Bankrupt during these proceedings.]
We had a business tenant who approached us with the arrangement; we were not otherwise seeking this particular tenant situation, but it was a reputable firm - or so we thought.
The rent was late immediately. After several months (always requiring virtual begging - awkward because there were other professionals in the family who occasionally did business with this company), they simply stopped paying, but continued to use the property for the originally intended purpose.
After a few months of "negotiations" (first us, then with our new attorneys), we gave them the 3 day "pay or vacate". Surprisingly, they vacated.
We got a pre-judgement lien and garnishment (on many properties they owned).
Little did we know (and WE found out, not our ex-attorneys) that they were about to go into bankruptcy *AGAIN*. And just move on into a new place, with a slightly different LLC name.
Turns out they have been doing this for YEARS, with many similar poor souls (at least one of which was himself forced into bankruptcy due to the uncollectable damages).
We have spoken with several of the attorneys in some of the other cases, and the situations are very similar (one eerily so, another Plaintiff with similar "full service law firm", not satisfied, went pro se, all just a few months ahead of us, found the same case law that BOTH of our law firms had failed even to look for, etc.).
Fortunately, we have all of the briefs, etc., from the early stages. Trial date is fast approaching (it was set about 20 months ago, and we were horrified at the delay, worrying that WE would go bankrupt, but we've managed to get by - and now it's almost here - Yikes!)
We have already prevailed on one motion, and have another pending.
Opposing counsel's response this time is obviously taking us MUCH more seriously now.
Neither side did any discovery. It seemed originally a simple breach of contract/lease, and opposing counsel would have stipulated, but there was no agreement about damages.
By ACCIDENT, as we spent months searching online for any information that might help us, we found that there IS a link to other LLC's and persons. Company has changed LLC identities faster than a chameleon.
Some are "DBA"s, others are called "trade names", some are registered, some are not (registrations is required in this state, we understand).
Company "ABC" approached us, negotiated for MANY MONTHS, then drew up lease. The company name on the lease was the name of an area ("xyz"). Months went by until the lease was actually signed (property was still under construction).
We THOUGHT we knew WHO we were dealing with, especially given previous business connection for several years.
At NO TIME did anyone (of many) representatives of the company use the area name "xyz" in their email address, email signature, letterhead,- NOWHERE ELSE, except in repeated descriptions of a "xyz" as a geographical area or location.
The insurance they needed per the lease was taken out in ABC's name. The utilities were in ABC's name. The insurance company contacted them as, and referred to them as, ABC.
Several banks they and we worked with referred to them as ABC.
Other business entities ALL referred to them as ABC.
NO one - at least no one that we have ever found yet - referred to them as xyz.
The utility companies gave us trouble changing service back to US, "because the service holder was ABC" and THEY would have to notify the utilities of any change of service. (Our then attorneys intervened to get utility services changed to us.)
ABC failed to pay utilities without telling us, exposing us to winter damage when utilities were shut off.
ABC allowed insurance to lapse, exposing us to potential catastrophic loss. (We already had a policy binder "waiting", as we initially thought we'd have the policy; we knew we might want it in the future. The instant we found out, I phoned OUR insurance company, and had the binder activated immediately, while we made payment arrangements, etc. Agency/insurer covered us on other local property.)
We are now trying to join the various chameleons (or some of them).
If we had not stumbled upon ONE LINK by accident (while researching something else), we would not have known of ONE specific and clear linkage, similar to finding "ABC dba xyz" .
We are arguing that the late joinder is due specifically to Defendant and other aliases careful HIDING of the associations (presumably to remain judgement-proof, although obviously we cannot prove intent).
We think what might happen is that we will have this first trial, and win the breach of lease, prove damages, and have a bankrupt (and now possibly non-existent?) Defendant who will not pay.
So we assume we will then file suit against the full and complete set of Defendants (or as many as we can find of them!), IF our current motion for joinder is denied.
Many of these chameleons are defunct. Some are active, and one is very profitable.
It is hard to imagine a more tangled web than what we uncovered (as did the other pro se Plaintiff a short time ahead of us).
The obvious problem has been, and will be, collecting damages.
Suggestions?
[We find it astonishing that apparently at least TWO full-service law firms, highly paid, NEVER investigated. We dismissed ours primarily because they REFUSED to explore the ABC/xyz entanglement, and that cost us precious money and time. If at least two major law firms and top attorneys refused to accept their own clients statements that "with respect to 'xyz', there is "no 'there' there", how would we have known to ASK about the linkage in formal discovery? Much of the information was not even available or did not exist until very recently.]
Thank you!
2PhDs (who are both lifetime researchers, but only recently with anything regarding legal issues like these).
[We are now pro se Plaintiffs, having dismissed "full service law firm" after they made more of a mess of things. Supposed Tenant went Bankrupt during these proceedings.]
We had a business tenant who approached us with the arrangement; we were not otherwise seeking this particular tenant situation, but it was a reputable firm - or so we thought.
The rent was late immediately. After several months (always requiring virtual begging - awkward because there were other professionals in the family who occasionally did business with this company), they simply stopped paying, but continued to use the property for the originally intended purpose.
After a few months of "negotiations" (first us, then with our new attorneys), we gave them the 3 day "pay or vacate". Surprisingly, they vacated.
We got a pre-judgement lien and garnishment (on many properties they owned).
Little did we know (and WE found out, not our ex-attorneys) that they were about to go into bankruptcy *AGAIN*. And just move on into a new place, with a slightly different LLC name.
Turns out they have been doing this for YEARS, with many similar poor souls (at least one of which was himself forced into bankruptcy due to the uncollectable damages).
We have spoken with several of the attorneys in some of the other cases, and the situations are very similar (one eerily so, another Plaintiff with similar "full service law firm", not satisfied, went pro se, all just a few months ahead of us, found the same case law that BOTH of our law firms had failed even to look for, etc.).
Fortunately, we have all of the briefs, etc., from the early stages. Trial date is fast approaching (it was set about 20 months ago, and we were horrified at the delay, worrying that WE would go bankrupt, but we've managed to get by - and now it's almost here - Yikes!)
We have already prevailed on one motion, and have another pending.
Opposing counsel's response this time is obviously taking us MUCH more seriously now.
Neither side did any discovery. It seemed originally a simple breach of contract/lease, and opposing counsel would have stipulated, but there was no agreement about damages.
By ACCIDENT, as we spent months searching online for any information that might help us, we found that there IS a link to other LLC's and persons. Company has changed LLC identities faster than a chameleon.
Some are "DBA"s, others are called "trade names", some are registered, some are not (registrations is required in this state, we understand).
Company "ABC" approached us, negotiated for MANY MONTHS, then drew up lease. The company name on the lease was the name of an area ("xyz"). Months went by until the lease was actually signed (property was still under construction).
We THOUGHT we knew WHO we were dealing with, especially given previous business connection for several years.
At NO TIME did anyone (of many) representatives of the company use the area name "xyz" in their email address, email signature, letterhead,- NOWHERE ELSE, except in repeated descriptions of a "xyz" as a geographical area or location.
The insurance they needed per the lease was taken out in ABC's name. The utilities were in ABC's name. The insurance company contacted them as, and referred to them as, ABC.
Several banks they and we worked with referred to them as ABC.
Other business entities ALL referred to them as ABC.
NO one - at least no one that we have ever found yet - referred to them as xyz.
The utility companies gave us trouble changing service back to US, "because the service holder was ABC" and THEY would have to notify the utilities of any change of service. (Our then attorneys intervened to get utility services changed to us.)
ABC failed to pay utilities without telling us, exposing us to winter damage when utilities were shut off.
ABC allowed insurance to lapse, exposing us to potential catastrophic loss. (We already had a policy binder "waiting", as we initially thought we'd have the policy; we knew we might want it in the future. The instant we found out, I phoned OUR insurance company, and had the binder activated immediately, while we made payment arrangements, etc. Agency/insurer covered us on other local property.)
We are now trying to join the various chameleons (or some of them).
If we had not stumbled upon ONE LINK by accident (while researching something else), we would not have known of ONE specific and clear linkage, similar to finding "ABC dba xyz" .
We are arguing that the late joinder is due specifically to Defendant and other aliases careful HIDING of the associations (presumably to remain judgement-proof, although obviously we cannot prove intent).
We think what might happen is that we will have this first trial, and win the breach of lease, prove damages, and have a bankrupt (and now possibly non-existent?) Defendant who will not pay.
So we assume we will then file suit against the full and complete set of Defendants (or as many as we can find of them!), IF our current motion for joinder is denied.
Many of these chameleons are defunct. Some are active, and one is very profitable.
It is hard to imagine a more tangled web than what we uncovered (as did the other pro se Plaintiff a short time ahead of us).
The obvious problem has been, and will be, collecting damages.
Suggestions?
[We find it astonishing that apparently at least TWO full-service law firms, highly paid, NEVER investigated. We dismissed ours primarily because they REFUSED to explore the ABC/xyz entanglement, and that cost us precious money and time. If at least two major law firms and top attorneys refused to accept their own clients statements that "with respect to 'xyz', there is "no 'there' there", how would we have known to ASK about the linkage in formal discovery? Much of the information was not even available or did not exist until very recently.]
Thank you!
2PhDs (who are both lifetime researchers, but only recently with anything regarding legal issues like these).
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