Consumer Law, Warranties Bought items on craigslist, now seller wants back saying she wasnt allowed to sell

[Royale]

I responded to ad on CL for a dining room set. The ad said "moving, priced to sell". When I arrived to inspect the items, I found out that the house was about to be foreclosed and that the woman selling used to live there and was looking to sell as much as possible before the foreclosure which could be happening anytime this week. I ended up buying the dining room set and a number of other items totaling $935 which I paid in cash. When I asked about the history of the furniture, because it was maybe 70-80 yrs old or older and might be worth something more than what she was asking, she said she got it from a woman in her 90s whose children didn't want it and so she had no one else to give it to. The value she said came from the fact that this elderly woman had had many happy family gatherings around the table.

The day after I took delivery, she called me and said she needed the dining room set back because it wasn't hers to sell. She also said that she was being implicated for stealing the items and I was being implicated for accepting stolen goods. Apparently the backstory was much more complicated. She had separated/divorced her husband, it wasn't ever explicitly stated to me, years before and had moved out. The husband stayed in the house for a while longer but he was accused of fraud and so he transferred ownership of the house to his kids and rented it from them I was told that things got too hot for him so he decided to leave town. The house has not had anyone living in it for a year or so.

The woman selling me the items said that everything she was selling belonged to her, I have a voicemail recording say so, and that she needed to sell it before the bank locked up the house. As I said, I bought a number of items but when she called me the next day, she only wanted the dining room set back. She said it wasn't hers to sell and that the owner wanted it back. She said she was going through a divorce and so she thought she was entitled to half but then she sidestepped and said that bank was foreclosing and so she couldn't sell the furniture. When I asked why she didn't want the other items, she couldn't answer. She instead had me talk to her son, the owner of the house, who tried to explain who owned the dining room. Apparently, it belonged to his father's parents who gave it to the couple and so it had sentimental value to him. When I said that this didn't make sense because I bought a bunch of items, not just the dining room set, the son was surprised. I listed out to him everything I bought which included paintings, bookshelves, a card table with chairs, a portable heater, some dishes and some other odds and ends. He wasn't really concerned about the other stuff and just wanted the dining room set back. I told him that I would be willing to make an offer on the set because I really liked it and had gone out of my way to remove it from their house immediately and spent several hours cleaning it. He said he would contact his father to see if he would entertain an offer. That was the last I heard from them.

This leads me to a number of questions. First, I don't believe that I am guilty of receiving stolen goods since she told me several times that she was the owner. So do I own it? To me, this was a legal transaction. If their divorce isn't settled yet, does she have the right to sell the furniture? Would a divorce judge force me to return the property? Does the foreclosure come into play? Does the son owning the house have implications? Please help

 

[army judge]

This leads me to a number of questions. First, I don't believe that I am guilty of receiving stolen goods since she told me several times that she was the owner. So do I own it? To me, this was a legal transaction. If their divorce isn't settled yet, does she have the right to sell the furniture? Would a divorce judge force me to return the property? Does the foreclosure come into play? Does the son owning the house have implications? Please help

If the goods are stolen, NO, you can never own them.

You could be complicit in her theft, or charged with RECEIVING STOLEN GOODS.

If there is a court order prohibiting the destruction or removal of any property (before the divorce is finalized), NO, she can't LEGALLY sell those items.

Any judge can order you to return those items, or the police can confiscate them as CONTRABAND.

You might want to speak with a good, criminal defense attorney.

Then you need to contact the police, report this matter to them, and turn the goods over to the police.

Before you ask about your money, aren't you concerned about your freedom?

You could be arrested for "receiving stolen property".

That lousy $900 will seem like nothing, if you find yourself sitting in a filthy jail cell.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, STOP buying junk off of CraigsList.

You usually get screwed, arrested, robbed, or even killed by doing anything through CraigsList.

 

[Royale]

Thanks Army Judge. I contacted a lawyer who ruled out me being guilty of receiving stolen goods. I did take your advice and called the police. The sergeant I spoke with said that unless the property was or will be reported stolen, I am not guilty of receiving stolen goods. He also said that since I called and basically turned my self in, that would clear me of liability. In his view, I am clear of any criminal charges. That makes this a civil case. There are a couple hang ups though. Since they are going through a divorce, there may be a court order or some other legal injunction preventing her from selling the property in which case, I could have to return it. But most likely, if the divorce is not yet settled, they will just decrease her settlement. So in the end, this comes down to disputed ownership and that's purely a civil matter. The party claiming ownership could sue both me and the woman who sold it to me but it would be decided in court and both the supposed owner and the seller would have to battle it there. If the supposed owner wins the ownership battle in court, then most likely a judge would order either a return of the property or a monetary settlement.

 

[army judge]

Thanks Army Judge. I contacted a lawyer who ruled out me being guilty of receiving stolen goods. I did take your advice and called the police. The sergeant I spoke with said that unless the property was or will be reported stolen, I am not guilty of receiving stolen goods. He also said that since I called and basically turned my self in, that would clear me of liability. In his view, I am clear of any criminal charges. That makes this a civil case. There are a couple hang ups though. Since they are going through a divorce, there may be a court order or some other legal injunction preventing her from selling the property in which case, I could have to return it. But most likely, if the divorce is not yet settled, they will just decrease her settlement. So in the end, this comes down to disputed ownership and that's purely a civil matter. The party claiming ownership could sue both me and the woman who sold it to me but it would be decided in court and both the supposed owner and the seller would have to battle it there. If the supposed owner wins the ownership battle in court, then most likely a judge would order either a return of the property or a monetary settlement.

Yes, I knew that. But, these things often go awry.
Good luck, and for your safety, don't buy junk via CL.
I represented the family of a man who was robbed and killed (a wrongful death case) trying to buy a car offered on CL. There are good and bad people trolling that site. Better safe, than sorry. Please, be careful.


Sent from my iPad3 using Tapatalk HD

 

[mightymoose]

This leads me to a number of questions. First, I don't believe that I am guilty of receiving stolen goods since she told me several times that she was the owner. So do I own it? To me, this was a legal transaction. If their divorce isn't settled yet, does she have the right to sell the furniture? Would a divorce judge force me to return the property? Does the foreclosure come into play? Does the son owning the house have implications? Please help

You would have no involvement in the theft nor would you be illegally in possession unless you had knowledge of a theft, or reasonably should have known. The circumstances you describe don't seem to support the accusation, which was likely made just to pressure you to comply.
You bought the furniture and you now own it. If it was sold to you without permission the owner can hold the seller responsible, and the owner can offer to buy the furniture back from you if you are willing to sell it. You are not obligated to do anything at all with the property unless a court orders you to, which sounds unlikely.
You made your offer. If they don't accept it then don't worry about it. They can settle the dispute within their family.

 

[mightymoose]

Since they are going through a divorce, there may be a court order or some other legal injunction preventing her from selling the property in which case, I could have to return it.

That is not going to happen. If she did something she should not have then SHE is responsible, not you. As you describe the scenario it seems you are totally in the clear. It is completely up to you whether you wish to sell the items back to the previous owner.

 

[army judge]

Thanks Army Judge. I contacted a lawyer who ruled out me being guilty of receiving stolen goods. I did take your advice and called the police. The sergeant I spoke with said that unless the property was or will be reported stolen, I am not guilty of receiving stolen goods. He also said that since I called and basically turned my self in, that would clear me of liability. In his view, I am clear of any criminal charges. That makes this a civil case. There are a couple hang ups though. Since they are going through a divorce, there may be a court order or some other legal injunction preventing her from selling the property in which case, I could have to return it. But most likely, if the divorce is not yet settled, they will just decrease her settlement. So in the end, this comes down to disputed ownership and that's purely a civil matter. The party claiming ownership could sue both me and the woman who sold it to me but it would be decided in court and both the supposed owner and the seller would have to battle it there. If the supposed owner wins the ownership battle in court, then most likely a judge would order either a return of the property or a monetary settlement.

Ultimately the charge is prosecuted by the district attorney.

Here is PA law on RSP:

Receiving stolen property - 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 3925
§ 3925. Receiving stolen property.
(a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of theft if he
intentionally receives, retains, or disposes of movable property
of another knowing that it has been stolen, or believing that it
has probably been stolen, unless the property is received,
retained, or disposed with intent to restore it to the owner.
(b) Definition.--As used in this section the word
"receiving" means acquiring possession, control or title, or
lending on the security of the property.


Receiving stolen property: A person is guilty of theft if he intentionally receives, retains, or disposes of moveable property of another, knowing it has been stolen, or believing that it has probably been stolen, unless the property is received, retained, or disposed with intent to restore it to the owners.




PUNISHMENT - PENALTY
> $5,000

3rd degree Felony

Up to 7 years in prison



Between $1,000-$5,000

2nd Degree Misdemeanor

Up to 2 years in prison



More than $500

3rd Degree Misdemeanor

Up to 1 year in prison



If the property was valued at less than $500, the charge is a summary offense and will bring a maximum potential sentence of 90 days in jail.