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Anyway to get rid of this ticket? Do I have a bonus as a foreigner?

Discussion in 'Speeding Tickets, Traffic & Moving Violations' started by JohnBB, Nov 13, 2019.

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  1. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    I'd be very careful doing anything you glean from the internet.

    Even Honest Old Abe, who invented the internet said so:

    abe1.JPG

    abequote.jpg
     
  2. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    NO - you totally misunderstand that. Utah specifically states that any speed greater than the posted limit is prima facie (on its face) evidence that your speed is not reasonable and prudent. ( 41-6a-601(3) ).

    Again, it's inconvenient for you, not insane.

    Germany is lovely - I'd probably enjoy the stay.

    No, it's apparently you who do not understand that simple fact.
     
  3. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Here's the law in Utah. I've emphasized the portion that the OP wasn't aware of.

    41-6a-601 Speed regulations -- Safe and appropriate speeds at certain locations -- Prima facie speed limits -- Emergency power of the governor.
    (1) A person may not operate a vehicle at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the existing conditions, giving regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing, including when:
    (a) approaching and crossing an intersection or railroad grade crossing;
    (b) approaching and going around a curve;
    (c) approaching a hill crest;
    (d) traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway;
    (e) traveling in, through, or approaching other hazards that exist due to pedestrians, other traffic, weather, or highway conditions; and
    (f) the speed causes the person to fail to maintain control of the vehicle or stay within a single
    lane of travel.
    (2) Subject to Subsections (1) and (4) and Sections 41-6a-602 and 41-6a-603, the following
    speeds are lawful:
    (a) 20 miles per hour in a reduced speed school zone as defined in Section 41-6a-303; (b) 25 miles per hour in any urban district; and
    (c) 55 miles per hour in other locations.
    1. (3) Except as provided in Section 41-6a-604, any speed in excess of the limits provided in this section or established under Sections 41-6a-602 and 41-6a-603 is prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable or prudent and that it is unlawful.

    2. (4) A violation of Subsection (1) is an infraction.

    3. (5) The governor by proclamation in time of war or emergency may change the speed limits on the

      highways of the state.
    Amended by Chapter 149, 2019 General Session
     
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  4. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Let me explain this further so you know why it's even included in the law. This is in place to prohibit people from driving safer than conditions, not to exceed the speed limit. For example, if it was snowing and the roads were slick, you could be cited for "speeding" even if you were doing 10 mph in a 50 mph zone. We call it the "basic speed law". You can search for that term for additional information.
     
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  5. JohnBBB

    JohnBBB New Member

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    Okay, I am back with another user name (sorry the limit is somehow 5 posts per day so I could not write more messages)

    So here is the link where I found it
    Utah Speed Limits, Laws, and Fines

    and it even says:
    Utah has prima facie speed laws. This means that a driver is presumed to be breaking the speed law, however the driver may argue that they were driving safely despite exceeding the limit. Alternatively, a driver may choose to go to court and claim their innocence based upon one of the following:

    The driver may oppose the determination of speed. In order to claim this defense a driver must know how his or her speed was determined and then learn how to disprove its accuracy



    To be honest, it looked legit and real to me - so it's all false what is written there? And I should be more precise about Germany; We only have fines depending on inside or outside the city (so it does not matter if you are in a zone with 30 kph speed limit(e.g. in front of a school), a construction site etc. - for example 20 kph too fast is 35 € inside a town/village/city and 30€ outside the city...

    However, we have three ways to measure speed:

    1. Fixed speed cameras

    They are the easiest since usually you can spot them easily and you can download an app (I recommend blitzer.de) and when you run it during driving, it warns you whenever you get close to a speed camera

    2. Mobile speed cameras

    Police sets up speed cameras to detect your speed and you usually just get the fine sent home by post, i.e. when you drive too fast it will take a picture and will send the fine to you

    Those are trickier but there are not that many and e.g. blitzer.de also warns you of them so if they just set them up 10 minutes ago you might not get a warning but often you do

    3. They measure your speed from a car driving behind you

    Extremely rare since we have speed cameras but on places with many accidents this can happen; But they will not pull you over if you drive less than 20 or 30 kph too fast since cops in Germany are never alone, so 2 x the salary and cheap speed tickets - it is just not wort it to stop you for like 30 €

    I just wanted to write this so people do not get any wrong ideas..

    So back to the topic: For me saying that I set the cruise control to 11mph over the limit does not mean that I plead guilty; Because 1. There was a curve before that where i needed to brake and afterwards I activated the cruise control so it is not certain if the cruise control was already at these 76 mph (65 was allowed)

    And even if it was, then it just means that the speedometer displays 76 mph - in Europe (don't know about the US but should be similar) a speedometer is not allowed to display a lower speed but of course might display a greater speed to some extent and there are definitely bad ones that displays around 10% too much..

    That's why I do not understand why I plead guilty just by saying that I put the cruise control to 76 mph - it actually just says that the measuring of the police was inaccurate;

    But basically you are saying that I have absolutely no way to escape this? But also if I do not enter Utah but some other US state, nothing will happen?

    Imagine I do not pay and in 10 years for some reason they realize it - what would happen then? Then I probably don't go to jail but just need to pay the fine, right? Do you know to what extent it might accumulate?

    Does it just go from 150 to 200 or 300 or is it possible that I get caught in Utah in 10 years and they want like 3000 $ from me?
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
  6. Highwayman

    Highwayman Well-Known Member

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    I guess that physics must be different in Germany.

    Here in the USA it's VERY accurate.
     
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  7. JohnBBB

    JohnBBB New Member

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    How do you know that? Personally, from my feeling, I would say that you are right but I suspect that in unlikely events the measuring might be inaccurate and while Germans are more conservative and therefore ban it, the US still uses it since it is handy and in most cases correct; At least it would fit to the stereotypes of Germans...

    For measuring the speed driving behind you there are also strict requirements:

    E.g. "bei 91 bis 120 km/h des verdächtigen Fahrzeugs: mindestens 500 m"

    So at least measuring the speed over 500m if the car drives between 91 kph and 120 kph; Also the tolerance that is to be reduced is 5% and hence pretty high
     
  8. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    And all of the ^ is totally irrelevant. You were in Utah and required to drive according to the laws of that state. You chose to drive over the limit. Pay your fine.
     
  9. JohnBBB

    JohnBBB New Member

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    Ahm - you do know that people should be fined not by whether they drove too fast but by the fact whether the police can consistently prove that they drove too fast?

    Your arguments are rather ethical...
     
  10. Disabled Vet

    Disabled Vet Active Member

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    Simple fact... You were speeding and got caught. You will need to pay the fine. Same as I did in Germany. I was on the Autobahn and they had placed a broken down auto in a area which had a speed limit. The ticket came in the mail to my military unit as i was driving a military van that day. So.... The fact the cop used a radar reading coming towards you works. Same as the German police used a broken down auto on the shoulder with a laser in it. :) Pay the fine and save yourself the troubles. Also.... if your late in paying the fine will go up.
     
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  11. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    The site you chose is very unreliable. You should look at the actual law.
     
  12. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    1- 5. I'm sure you noticed that you were not in Germany while you were driving in the US.
    6. Yes, in most cases police officers have some discretion when and under what law they issue tickets. In your case, the officer used that discretion and decided to issue you a ticket for EXACTLY what you have admitted here to doing. I'll bet you admitted to the cop as well.
     
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  13. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    This is not a debate forum. You have been answered ad nauseam. Pay your fine.
     
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  14. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    Agree. Thread is locked.
     
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