Something a bit different

[aqualunar2]

Hi, I'm new and people seemed helpful so I hope this helps me.

The background:
My boyfriend racked up debt while working full-time. Like most people, he never thought he'd lose the job that eventually made him anti-people. It was night after night of rude and greedy people and now that he's lost the job and has a lot of debt, it doesn't help that he's so depressed. I and his family thinks that he has depression. Most people would get back to work to pay off the debt. He hasn't worked or paid off the debt for more than a year. He's a good hearted person and he's been taken advantage of before financially so he encourages me to have good credit. He's also the loner, independent, doesn't ask for help when he needs it type.

I am in excellent credit. Low quarter to mid 700s. I pay off my debts in full now that I am able. Because I care and because I knew his finances were a bit of a struggle, I put him on my Bank One credit card to purchase gas or a little thing here or there. I tell him to just charge it if he needs to. It's like pulling teeth or twisting an arm.


The problems:
One, since he hadn't been paying his debts, esp. for a year, the creditors are trying to get some money, any money. This particular collector called my parent's house to "leave a message". I, in turn, got the message and called the guy. I was upset that he called my parents, who had nothing to do with my boyfriend. He managed to link the account together and "didn't know the relation" so he called anyway.

Is that harrassment? Doesn't the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act prevent that? I mean, I'm not really related, I'm not family, I'm not his spouse, I'm not authorized to speak on his behalf - financially or otherwise.

Second, a Bank One personnel (collector) called me to tell me that since my BF has on the account and he has neglient accounts, they think it's not fair that he has a debt and then is one another account that he is able to spend on. They want me to pay the debt, close the account and then reopen it.

I told the woman that it was all stupid because I trust him not to go crazy with the card, that 99.9% of all debts are mine, that I've been paying off all the debt recently, they are forcing me to close so that they can cover their liabilities, and I lose my rewards accumulated. I told her it was stupid for each and every thing. At some point, she got upset, raised her voice, and started lecturing me on the how there are some people to max out someone's credit and then that person refuses to pay since it's not theirs, "10 out of 10 people", etc.

I told her I didn't like being lectured to, that I didn't like her raising her voice at me. She argued back, never apologizing for her behavior when I called her on it. She continued to speak over me. I told her that I full well know what I'm getting into and take all resposibilities and she ignored me. We agreed to disagreed - shortly before we hung up on each other.

I don't even know what to consider this. Harrassment of my parents? Of me? What advice can anyone give me?

 

[FeithnanCeann]

Hopeful encouragement

Your welcome.

 

[NYClex]

This is what the law says:

§ 806. Harassment or abuse [15 USC 1692d]

A debt collector may not engage in any conduct the natural consequence of which is to harass, oppress, or abuse any person in connection with the collection of a debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(1) The use or threat of use of violence or other criminal means to harm the physical person, reputation, or property of any person.

(2) The use of obscene or profane language or language the natural consequence of which is to abuse the hearer or reader.

(3) The publication of a list of consumers who allegedly refuse to pay debts, except to a consumer reporting agency or to persons meeting the requirements of section 603(f) or 604(3)1 of this Act.

(4) The advertisement for sale of any debt to coerce payment of the debt.

(5) Causing a telephone to ring or engaging any person in telephone conversation repeatedly or continuously with intent to annoy, abuse, or harass any person at the called number.

(6) Except as provided in section 804, the placement of telephone calls without meaningful disclosure of the caller's identity.

§ 807. False or misleading representations [15 USC 1692e]

A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(1) The false representation or implication that the debt collector is vouched for, bonded by, or affiliated with the United States or any State, including the use of any badge, uniform, or facsimile thereof.

(2) The false representation of --

(A) the character, amount, or legal status of any debt; or

(B) any services rendered or compensation which may be lawfully received by any debt collector for the collection of a debt.

(3) The false representation or implication that any individual is an attorney or that any communication is from an attorney.

(4) The representation or implication that nonpayment of any debt will result in the arrest or imprisonment of any person or the seizure, garnishment, attachment, or sale of any property or wages of any person unless such action is lawful and the debt collector or creditor intends to take such action.

(5) The threat to take any action that cannot legally be taken or that is not intended to be taken.

(6) The false representation or implication that a sale, referral, or other transfer of any interest in a debt shall cause the consumer to --

(A) lose any claim or defense to payment of the debt; or

(B) become subject to any practice prohibited by this title.

(7) The false representation or implication that the consumer committed any crime or other conduct in order to disgrace the consumer.

(8) Communicating or threatening to communicate to any person credit information which is known or which should be known to be false, including the failure to communicate that a disputed debt is disputed.

(9) The use or distribution of any written communication which simulates or is falsely represented to be a document authorized, issued, or approved by any court, official, or agency of the United States or any State, or which creates a false impression as to its source, authorization, or approval.

(10) The use of any false representation or deceptive means to collect or attempt to collect any debt or to obtain information concerning a consumer.

(11) The failure to disclose in the initial written communication with the consumer and, in addition, if the initial communication with the consumer is oral, in that initial oral communication, that the debt collector is attempting to collect a debt and that any information obtained will be used for that purpose, and the failure to disclose in subsequent communications that the communication is from a debt collector, except that this paragraph shall not apply to a formal pleading made in connection with a legal action.

(12) The false representation or implication that accounts have been turned over to innocent purchasers for value.

(13) The false representation or implication that documents are legal process.

(14) The use of any business, company, or organization name other than the true name of the debt collector's business, company, or organization.

(15) The false representation or implication that documents are not legal process forms or do not require action by the consumer.

(16) The false representation or implication that a debt collector operates or is employed by a consumer reporting agency as defined by section 603(f) of this Act.

§ 808. Unfair practices [15 USC 1692f]

A debt collector may not use unfair or unconscionable means to collect or attempt to collect any debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(1) The collection of any amount (including any interest, fee, charge, or expense incidental to the principal obligation) unless such amount is expressly authorized by the agreement creating the debt or permitted by law.

(2) The acceptance by a debt collector from any person of a check or other payment instrument postdated by more than five days unless such person is notified in writing of the debt collector's intent to deposit such check or instrument not more than ten nor less than three business days prior to such deposit.

(3) The solicitation by a debt collector of any postdated check or other postdated payment instrument for the purpose of threatening or instituting criminal prosecution.

(4) Depositing or threatening to deposit any postdated check or other postdated payment instrument prior to the date on such check or instrument.

(5) Causing charges to be made to any person for communications by concealment of the true propose of the communication. Such charges include, but are not limited to, collect telephone calls and telegram fees.

(6) Taking or threatening to take any nonjudicial action to effect dispossession or disablement of property if --

(A) there is no present right to possession of the property claimed as collateral through an enforceable security interest;

(B) there is no present intention to take possession of the property; or

(C) the property is exempt by law from such dispossession or disablement.

(7) Communicating with a consumer regarding a debt by post card.

(8) Using any language or symbol, other than the debt collector's address, on any envelope when communicating with a consumer by use of the mails or by telegram, except that a debt collector may use his business name if such name does not indicate that he is in the debt collection business.

One call in this matter probably cannot yet be considered harassment, but if they continue to do that, it surely is. But the agency's call to your parents clearly violated the law:

(b) COMMUNICATION WITH THIRD PARTIES. Except as provided in section 804, without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector, or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, or as reasonably necessary to effectuate a postjudgment judicial remedy, a debt collector may not communicate, in connection with the collection of any debt, with any person other than a consumer, his attorney, a consumer reporting agency if otherwise permitted by law, the creditor, the attorney of the creditor, or the attorney of the debt collector

What you can do is this: request that they cease to contact you pointing to this section 805 (b) and threaten legal action if they don't. Of course, it is not guaranteed that they will observe the law.


The BankOne affair is also somewhat tacky. It depends on the cardholder agreement if they can close the account or not, I guess they can without giving any reason, but it surely shows no real customer appreciation and a lack of professionalism on their part.

 

[aqualunar2]

To Feith_nan_Ceann and NYClex,

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and respond. I appreciate them greatly.

After posting to the forum, I emailed Bank One using their comments form and I never heard a response from that - not that I necessarily expected to. I stopped getting calls to my work and haven't heard any more from Bank One/First USA affiliates/creditors. My boyfriend thinks that the harrassment about closing the account was just them trying to threaten / scare me.

Strangely enough, he has gone back to work with a friend and I admit, I appreciate the advice and encouragement and I appreciate the knowledge that they have crossed the barriers and can let them know about the FDCPA if I need.

Thank you again.