Question on Discharge

[martin1989]

Jurisdiction

Utah

So this is my question, me and my wife have been discharged and cleared. We still have two remaining thing yet to be collected by the lien holders, yet they have not emailed back or even tried to collect.

One is a vehicle that just sits there unused and empty, the other is a vacuum that we still use.

At what point after a discharge does the property revert ownership back to us based on how long it's just left here gathering dust??

 

[zddoodah]

me and my wife have been discharged and cleared.

What does "cleared" mean? "Discharged" has a particular and well-understood meaning in the context of a bankruptcy. "Cleared" does not, and I can't tell if you used the word to mean something in addition to "discharged" or if it is just surplusage.

We still have two remaining thing yet to be collected by the lien holders, yet they have not emailed back or even tried to collect.

Please elaborate about what this means.

 

[martin1989]

Cleared as in addition to discharged.

And two remaining things yet to be collected, they have been surrendered but not collected, one vehicle and one vacuum.

 

[zddoodah]

Cleared as in addition to discharged.

Ok. So that confirms that, when you wrote that you were "discharged and cleared," you were talking about two separate and distinct things. So what does "cleared" mean? As I wrote in my prior response, it is not a term that has any commonly understood meaning in the context of a bankruptcy. Thus, if it's important, you'll need to explain what it means.

And two remaining things yet to be collected, they have been surrendered but not collected, one vehicle and one vacuum.

That's basically just a restatement of what you wrote previously.

Here's a question: have you called your bankruptcy lawyer to ask this question? If not, why not?

 

[martin1989]

Ok. So that confirms that, when you wrote that you were "discharged and cleared," you were talking about two separate and distinct things. So what does "cleared" mean? As I wrote in my prior response, it is not a term that has any commonly understood meaning in the context of a bankruptcy. Thus, if it's important, you'll need to explain what it means.



That's basically just a restatement of what you wrote previously.

Here's a question: have you called your bankruptcy lawyer to ask this question? If not, why not?

He has just said repeatedly that they haven't responded to him in regards to any sort of pickup or return of the property.

Please remove the word cleared from my prior statement as it doesn't mean anything I only meant that our case was discharged. Thus bringing forth the question on what happens to the property that still remains surrendered but not collected yet.

 

[despritfreya]

The failure of a creditor to effectuate a repossession of either a vehicle or smaller items of personal property is not uncommon. For larger items such as vehicles, this typically happens when the vehicle is too old or in such disrepair as to not justify the expense of repossession and then sale. For smaller household items, most lenders just don't want them.

I do not have an answer for the vehicle as I doubt you can dispose of it without a clear title and I don't know how you "force" the lender's hand. Maybe offer some token amount for the lien release. Send a written offer via "certified mail, return receipt requested" and keep copies of everything. Don't know if or when you will get a response but it may be worth a try.

As to smaller items, I typically suggest that a certified letter be mailed telling the lender that if the lender does not contact the borrower within 30 days to arrange the return (surrender) of its collateral, the collateral will be deemed abandoned and the collateral will be disposed of. Keep copies of everything.

Hope this helps.

Des.

 

[flyingron]

You could always drive it over to the lender's lot and abandon it there.

Are you going to tell me that there is a lien against the vacuum? That's kind of unusual. Chances are the bankruptcy discharge wiped out their ability to reclaim that.

 

[despritfreya]

Are you going to tell me that there is a lien against the vacuum? That's kind of unusual. Chances are the bankruptcy discharge wiped out their ability to reclaim that.

Absolutely - Kirby, Orek, and any other brand sold by the manufacturer, unless paid with cash or a visa type card is normally financed and the lender has a purchase money security interest. So is a purchase through retailers such as Best Buy, if financed at the source (no different than financing jewelry through Zales). Read the financing documents.

If there is a PMSI the bk did nothing to void it. Debtor's intention had to be to redeem, reaffirm or surrender the collateral. OP wants to surrender but the lender is not communicating because the lender does not want the junk.

@martin1989 Who is the vacuum financed through?

Des.

 

[martin1989]

Absolutely - Kirby, Orek, and any other brand sold by the manufacturer, unless paid with cash or a visa type card is normally financed and the lender has a purchase money security interest. So is a purchase through retailers such as Best Buy, if financed at the source (no different than financing jewelry through Zales). Read the financing documents.

If there is a PMSI the bk did nothing to void it. Debtor's intention had to be to redeem, reaffirm or surrender the collateral. OP wants to surrender but the lender is not communicating because the lender does not want the junk.

@martin1989 Who is the vacuum financed through?

Des.

The vacuum is a rainbow vacuum financed through PCI (Preferred credit Inc)

The car is through WellsFargo

 

[despritfreya]

The vacuum is a rainbow vacuum financed through PCI (Preferred credit Inc)

Apparently under-written by US Bank. If it works, here is a link to a sample credit sales/security agreement.

CREDIT SALE CONTRACT / SECURITY AGREEMENT X

Again, lender (either PCI or US Bank) probably does not want the vacuum.

Wells Fargo, on the other hand, should have sent your attny a Reaffirmation Agreement. I searched my emails to see if I could locate a contact for you at Wells Fargo Auto Finance. Unfortunately I did not find one.

Des.

 

[martin1989]

They had sent a reaffirmation, at the time we did want to keep the vehicle so we signed that, though it stated we could rescind before 30days, we rescinded after a week as we found a cheaper option vehicle that was a lot less per month than WellsFargo, we haven't heard back from them since then

 

[despritfreya]

They had sent a reaffirmation, at the time we did want to keep the vehicle so we signed that, though it stated we could rescind before 30days, we rescinded after a week as we found a cheaper option vehicle that was a lot less per month than WellsFargo, we haven't heard back from them since then

Pull your copy of the Reaff paperwork. There should be a contact person on the cover page or the email transmittal page.

Des.