I was wondering if anyone knew what our rights where as far as my neighbor's fence being on my property. I had a legal survey done and it was determined that their fence is on our property. Are we allowed to just remove it? Also, since it is on our property if we do decide to leave it is the section that is on my property automatically ours (they refuse to move it saying that our survey is wrong, they are real jerks) Thank you for your time!I live in CA
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neighbors fence on my property
- Thread Starter Ann_
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Hi Anne, Here in Illinois you simply send a certified letter stating that a legal survey has been documented evidencing that their fence line is in error and they have 14 days to remove it or lose it. My parent's had this similar situation and the neighbor took no steps to remove the fence. We removed it, placed it on their drive-way and went ahead and installed my parent's fence. No words were exchanged...but....we kept the signed certified green card to evidence their notice.
Check with your village building dept. and they will be in a good position to instruct you.
Check with your village building dept. and they will be in a good position to instruct you.
John_Lewis
New Member
Ann said:I was wondering if anyone knew what our rights where as far as my neighbor's fence being on my property. I had a legal survey done and it was determined that their fence is on our property. Are we allowed to just remove it? Also, since it is on our property if we do decide to leave it is the section that is on my property automatically ours (they refuse to move it saying that our survey is wrong, they are real jerks) Thank you for your time!I live in CA
Hi,
I have the same problem with my neighbors fence on my property. I my case I have an un-attached garage in the driveway where the fence comes up the garage, does a ninety degree turn for two feet. Using the garage as a fence substitute but does not ninety back out in the back of of garage but instead goes straight back. I have owned the property
for 8 years. I asked the neighbor if he would be interested in splitting a fence between the properties. I requested that the fence be placed on the property line. This would give me back my property from the front of the garage straight back to the back property. My
neighbor was not happy stating that his sprikers would have to be shortened.
Is their a 7 year status and I am out of luck??
Send them a letter like the privious post said and do it quick! How long the fence been there?? After so many years the land inside the fence can be theirs. It's called adverse possession. I don't know the statue in CA but here in Alabama it is 10 years. DO NOT let time go by on this!!
John_Lewis
New Member
Hi,
I do not know how long the fence has been there but it looks very old. The fence is sub-standard in it's construction. Someone just stuck 2x4's in the ground and built the fence up from that.
I have owned my house for eight years and my neighbor has owned his for two. I have not
done a survey yet but their is a marker on the parkway sidewalk between our two properties. When I approached my neighbor about the fence his response was, the fence has probably been there for 40 years and besides I have all my landscaping and sprinklersrs up to the fence. The wrote a letter to my neighbor requesting that we install a new fence on the property line and split the cost. He just ignores me.
I do not know how long the fence has been there but it looks very old. The fence is sub-standard in it's construction. Someone just stuck 2x4's in the ground and built the fence up from that.
I have owned my house for eight years and my neighbor has owned his for two. I have not
done a survey yet but their is a marker on the parkway sidewalk between our two properties. When I approached my neighbor about the fence his response was, the fence has probably been there for 40 years and besides I have all my landscaping and sprinklersrs up to the fence. The wrote a letter to my neighbor requesting that we install a new fence on the property line and split the cost. He just ignores me.
John....you might want to find all four corners of your property so you know what you have. The Tax office can help with an aerial of the lot and the surrounding lots. You can also check the Deed office and look at the deed.....sometimes a survey is attached. You can try finding the markers with a compass, tape measure, and metal detector and a survey, aerial map and the legal discription. Also if you are wanting a better fence it sounds like you are going to have to buy it yourself. Go ahead and put one up where the old one is.
John_Lewis
New Member
Fence
Hi Massusie,
Thanks for the info. I do have an aerial plot picture that came with the deed and it shows
the house on a perfect rectangular lot with dimensions. My house has an un -attached garage. Their is currently an old fence that runs down the driveway, then does a 90 degree
turn for two feet, using one side of my garage as a fence?? but at the back of the garage
the fence beginsagain but does not ninety back out to the property line, it just goes straight back, sa if the the back edge of the garage is the property line. If you include the peace between the garage and the property line and the area behind the garage, my neighbor has 2 by 60 feet of my property. I want to tear down the fence behind the garage and put one from the front of the garage straight back to the back of the property line. This would give me the property between my garage and the property line and the piece behind the garage which has been stolen
Hi Massusie,
Thanks for the info. I do have an aerial plot picture that came with the deed and it shows
the house on a perfect rectangular lot with dimensions. My house has an un -attached garage. Their is currently an old fence that runs down the driveway, then does a 90 degree
turn for two feet, using one side of my garage as a fence?? but at the back of the garage
the fence beginsagain but does not ninety back out to the property line, it just goes straight back, sa if the the back edge of the garage is the property line. If you include the peace between the garage and the property line and the area behind the garage, my neighbor has 2 by 60 feet of my property. I want to tear down the fence behind the garage and put one from the front of the garage straight back to the back of the property line. This would give me the property between my garage and the property line and the piece behind the garage which has been stolen
John_Lewis
New Member
Hi Massusie,
I e-mailed the following to my neighbor:
Hi Jeff,
The problem with the trellis fence-like fence is it's not a fence. It's way to tall and it's not really structural, as a fence. A high quality 6 foot fence across the properties would be a lot cleaner looking. Home Depot has pre made 6' by 8' panels that have a trellis across the top?? You might want to check it out.
The biggest problem I have with the current fencing separating our properties is the fence behind my garage.
This fence is 1 1/2 feet on my property. I did some measurements with the parkway markers.. I first measured the marker between our properties and the next property to
the south. It measurers exactly 50 feet. When I then measured in the middle of my property from the south neighbors fence I get 50 feet when measuring 18 inches past my driveway concrete.
When I measured behind my garage from my south neighbors fence to the fence behind my garage, I get 23 1/2 feet. That fence is on my property and that's not right.
When you I last spoke, you had stated that back then neighbors would some times use the side of the neighbors garage to save on fencing. That makes sense and I have seen this done. I my case someone didn't put the return when they got to the back of my garage, but just went straight back. that's not what they use to do. Their should be a 1 1/2 foot return to bring the fence back to the property line.
John Lewis
Neighbors respose:
John:
Again, I am happy to work with you on replacing the trellis segment. I have seen what they have at home depot and other home centers- although there is still a need for setting posts.
With respect to the rest of the fence, as you had proposed, I would not believe that any of the preceding owners of our respective homes or any of the many others throughout our neighborhood or otherwise would just relinquish their land to save a couple of dollars. True, the fence in the back portion between our properties is aged, however, I have invested in landscaping and have sprinklers that run throughout my side yard.
My preference is to replace solely this segment, and will gladly split the costs of installing an appropriate solid wood fence, accordingly.
Jeff
I e-mailed the following to my neighbor:
Hi Jeff,
The problem with the trellis fence-like fence is it's not a fence. It's way to tall and it's not really structural, as a fence. A high quality 6 foot fence across the properties would be a lot cleaner looking. Home Depot has pre made 6' by 8' panels that have a trellis across the top?? You might want to check it out.
The biggest problem I have with the current fencing separating our properties is the fence behind my garage.
This fence is 1 1/2 feet on my property. I did some measurements with the parkway markers.. I first measured the marker between our properties and the next property to
the south. It measurers exactly 50 feet. When I then measured in the middle of my property from the south neighbors fence I get 50 feet when measuring 18 inches past my driveway concrete.
When I measured behind my garage from my south neighbors fence to the fence behind my garage, I get 23 1/2 feet. That fence is on my property and that's not right.
When you I last spoke, you had stated that back then neighbors would some times use the side of the neighbors garage to save on fencing. That makes sense and I have seen this done. I my case someone didn't put the return when they got to the back of my garage, but just went straight back. that's not what they use to do. Their should be a 1 1/2 foot return to bring the fence back to the property line.
John Lewis
Neighbors respose:
John:
Again, I am happy to work with you on replacing the trellis segment. I have seen what they have at home depot and other home centers- although there is still a need for setting posts.
With respect to the rest of the fence, as you had proposed, I would not believe that any of the preceding owners of our respective homes or any of the many others throughout our neighborhood or otherwise would just relinquish their land to save a couple of dollars. True, the fence in the back portion between our properties is aged, however, I have invested in landscaping and have sprinklers that run throughout my side yard.
My preference is to replace solely this segment, and will gladly split the costs of installing an appropriate solid wood fence, accordingly.
Jeff
John...........It sounds to me that with a face to face meeting with your neighbor you two might be able to come to terms that you both can live with. At least he is willing to help with the costs, and no, you dont want to lose land but you can also understand his point of landscaping and sprinklers since you said that you have landscaped also according to the fence as it sits. Call him up and arrange for a meeting by the fence and sit down over coffee or a cool drink afterwards and see what you can work out. GOOD LUCK!
John_Lewis
New Member
Hi Massusie,
Thank you for you suggestions.
My neighbor is asking me to split on the fence in the front portion of the fence that is on the property line(i.e. the part that is leading up to my garage. I don't have any issue with splitting on this part of the fence. My issue is from this point back. My neighbor has the area between my garage and the property line. He also has my property between the back of my garage and the property line. I am wondering if I have a claim against my title insurance company??
John
Thank you for you suggestions.
My neighbor is asking me to split on the fence in the front portion of the fence that is on the property line(i.e. the part that is leading up to my garage. I don't have any issue with splitting on this part of the fence. My issue is from this point back. My neighbor has the area between my garage and the property line. He also has my property between the back of my garage and the property line. I am wondering if I have a claim against my title insurance company??
John
If you feel that your neighbor fully knows that the fence is NOT on the true line, you may have no other recourse but to consult an attorney. [I am not an lawyer, but I am going through an adverse possession case with my neighbors and have done extensive research on it] I do believe you could "quiet title" your property and that would give your neighbor the oppertunity to contest you on the line and claim adverse possession. He may be able to "tack on" the time that he has owned his propertry to the previous owners time and that might give his claim to the land more time than your claim. [depends on your state laws] I can tell you from my experiance, this can be a long and expensive haul. I been fighting for almost two years now, and if it was over a couple of feet, I wouldnt have bothered, but in my case they want half of my one and a half acres!! Have tryed countless times to settle this but they wont allow anything less then them gaining land and my losing it. [wont be so bad, but they owned my property and sold it almost 30 years ago] You would think things like this would be simple......black and white.........but they are not and can run thousands of dollars. Thats why I suggest, If you can work out a solution with a face to face talk with the neighbors, you would be better off, if not consult a real estate attorney and see what he/she says as to what your options are. Good luck and keep us posted!
John_Lewis
New Member
My Neighbors Fence in on my property
Hi Massusie,
I made a claim against my title insurance company to see if they might help
me with my fence issue.
Here's the results, now what sould I do>>
John Lewis
Dear Mr. Lewis:
As you know, this law firm and I represent your title insurer, Lawyers Title Insurance Corporation(the "Company") with respect to your claim on your policy of title insurance.
Your policy, No. 119006939062, is in full force and effect, and the Company will fulfill all of its obligations to you, its insured, under the term and provisions of that insurance contract.
Thank you for taking the time to meet me at your property on October 20,2006, and explain your situation with your neighbor which gave rise to your decision to make a claim to the Company, as well as showing me the areas in dispute between you and your neighbor to the north of you, regarding the boundary which runs east-west along the northern border of your property. Thank you also for your emails of the digital photographs of the fence and the boundary area at issue.
Based on our meeting, my inspection of the property and the photographs you took and I took, in general terms, your dispute concerns an approximately 18 inch strip of land to which you have been denied access by two fences built by your neighbor or his predecessor.
I understand the relevant facts to be as follows: Approximately one-half way toward the back or your northerly property line (going west, from the street), there is an old, rickety white lattice fence, apportion of which appears to sit on the northerly property line for approximately 10 feet and the cuts, at approximately a 45 degree, back into your neighbor's yard (in a northeast direction), ending parallel to the front (northwestern) edge of your garage. From there, within the last one and one-half(1 ½) years, your neighbor built a short (approximately 10 feet in length), six foot high wood fence running from the end of the white lattice fence on your neighbor's property, directly and perpendicular to the northwest edge of your garage. That newer fence has cut off your access to the outside north wall of your garage and the approximately 18 inches of the land on your property directly to the north of that garage wall.
In addition, you showed me an old, approximately 6 foot high wood fence, which existed when you purchased your property in 1998, that runs from the northeast (back) corner of your garage, approximately 50 feet to the eastern (back) boundary area of your backyard, slightly south of what is, apparently, your northerly boundary line. That fence also prevents your access to the northern outside wall of your garage and the northern 18 inches of your property for the length of the fence.
Thus, your claim relates to an approximately 65 foot x 18 inch strip of land from which your access is cut off by two fences; the newer one built by your current northerly neighbor (within the last 1 1/2 years) and the older one apparently built by a predecessor of that neighbor.
Addressing the specific policy provisions implicated by your claim, you purchased a California Land Title Association Standard Coverage Policy, dated April 1, 1998, which states, in its Exceptions from Coverage-Schedule B, Part 1, in pertinent part:
"This policy does not insure against loss or damage (and the Company will not pay costs, attorneys' fees or expenses) which arise by reason of:
"2. Any facts, rights, interests or claims which are not shown by the public records but which are not shown by the public records but which could be ascertained by an inspection of the land or which may be asserted by persons in possession thereof.
"3. Easements, liens, or encumbrances, or claims thereof, which are not shown by the public records.
"4 Discrepancies, conflicts in boundary lines, shortage in area, encroachments, or any other facts which a correct survey would disclose, and which are not shown by the public records."
In addition, the following matters are expressly excluded from coverage of this policy and the Company will not pay loss or damage, costs, attorneys" fees or expenses which arise by reason of:
"3. Defects, liens, encumbrances, adverse claims or other matters:
"(a) created, suffered, assumed, or agreed by the insured claimant;
"(d) attaching or created subsequent to the Date of Policy……."
Based on the foregoing provisions, and the factual discussion set forth above, it is the Company's view that your policy of title insurance does not afford you coverage for the matter you have raised regarding the encroachments by your neighbor's two fences, the newer one running to the northwest corner of your garage and the older one beginning at the northeast corner of your garage, and both of which block your access to the approximately 18 inch by approximately 65 foot strip of your property. Generally speaking, and without limitation any claim your neighbor may have or purports to have to the portion of your property at issue falls within the following exceptions from coverage portion of your policy, under Schedule B, Part 1. Under paragraph 2, there is no coverage for matters not shown by the public records but which could have been ascertained by an inspection of the land. An inspection of your property before you purchased it would have shown that the longer, back, older fence was not on the property line, but rather encroached onto your property by approximately 18 inches. Paragraph 3 states you have no coverage for easements that are not shown by the public records. There are no recorded documents reflecting an easement in favor of your neighbor to the north who owns Lot 9 (and part of Lot 8), 9136 Benedict Canyon. Further, under Paragraph 4, conflicts in boundary lines, shortages in area, encroachments, or any of the facts a correct survey would have disclosed, not shown in the public records, are not covered. No survey was obtained by you before you purchased your property and there are no public records reflecting any claim by your neighbor (or his predecessors) to any portion of your land.
In addition, under the Exclusions from Coverage portion of your policy, at Paragraph 3, your neighbor's newer fence that runs into the northwest corner of your garage, blocking your access to the strip of land, was erected while you lived on your property and after the Policy was issued. An adverse claim to your land or a portion thereof (a) created, suffered, assumed, or agreed to by you, or (d) created subsequent to the Date of Policy is not covered by your policy. You advised me the newer fence was built approximately 1 ½ years ago; i.e. after the date of your policy (April 1, 1998). In addition, because the fence was built while you lived on your property and it has been in existence for approximately 1 ½ years, it could be reasonably viewed that you "suffered, assumed or agreed to" its construction and maintenance.
By this letter, the Company is not asserting that you do not have any claim against other persons with respect to these matters. The Company is not in apposition to advise you as to whether claims against any other person do or do not exist. This Letter relates only to the claims you made to the Company under the subject policy of title insurance.
Hi Massusie,
I made a claim against my title insurance company to see if they might help
me with my fence issue.
Here's the results, now what sould I do>>
John Lewis
Dear Mr. Lewis:
As you know, this law firm and I represent your title insurer, Lawyers Title Insurance Corporation(the "Company") with respect to your claim on your policy of title insurance.
Your policy, No. 119006939062, is in full force and effect, and the Company will fulfill all of its obligations to you, its insured, under the term and provisions of that insurance contract.
Thank you for taking the time to meet me at your property on October 20,2006, and explain your situation with your neighbor which gave rise to your decision to make a claim to the Company, as well as showing me the areas in dispute between you and your neighbor to the north of you, regarding the boundary which runs east-west along the northern border of your property. Thank you also for your emails of the digital photographs of the fence and the boundary area at issue.
Based on our meeting, my inspection of the property and the photographs you took and I took, in general terms, your dispute concerns an approximately 18 inch strip of land to which you have been denied access by two fences built by your neighbor or his predecessor.
I understand the relevant facts to be as follows: Approximately one-half way toward the back or your northerly property line (going west, from the street), there is an old, rickety white lattice fence, apportion of which appears to sit on the northerly property line for approximately 10 feet and the cuts, at approximately a 45 degree, back into your neighbor's yard (in a northeast direction), ending parallel to the front (northwestern) edge of your garage. From there, within the last one and one-half(1 ½) years, your neighbor built a short (approximately 10 feet in length), six foot high wood fence running from the end of the white lattice fence on your neighbor's property, directly and perpendicular to the northwest edge of your garage. That newer fence has cut off your access to the outside north wall of your garage and the approximately 18 inches of the land on your property directly to the north of that garage wall.
In addition, you showed me an old, approximately 6 foot high wood fence, which existed when you purchased your property in 1998, that runs from the northeast (back) corner of your garage, approximately 50 feet to the eastern (back) boundary area of your backyard, slightly south of what is, apparently, your northerly boundary line. That fence also prevents your access to the northern outside wall of your garage and the northern 18 inches of your property for the length of the fence.
Thus, your claim relates to an approximately 65 foot x 18 inch strip of land from which your access is cut off by two fences; the newer one built by your current northerly neighbor (within the last 1 1/2 years) and the older one apparently built by a predecessor of that neighbor.
Addressing the specific policy provisions implicated by your claim, you purchased a California Land Title Association Standard Coverage Policy, dated April 1, 1998, which states, in its Exceptions from Coverage-Schedule B, Part 1, in pertinent part:
"This policy does not insure against loss or damage (and the Company will not pay costs, attorneys' fees or expenses) which arise by reason of:
"2. Any facts, rights, interests or claims which are not shown by the public records but which are not shown by the public records but which could be ascertained by an inspection of the land or which may be asserted by persons in possession thereof.
"3. Easements, liens, or encumbrances, or claims thereof, which are not shown by the public records.
"4 Discrepancies, conflicts in boundary lines, shortage in area, encroachments, or any other facts which a correct survey would disclose, and which are not shown by the public records."
In addition, the following matters are expressly excluded from coverage of this policy and the Company will not pay loss or damage, costs, attorneys" fees or expenses which arise by reason of:
"3. Defects, liens, encumbrances, adverse claims or other matters:
"(a) created, suffered, assumed, or agreed by the insured claimant;
"(d) attaching or created subsequent to the Date of Policy……."
Based on the foregoing provisions, and the factual discussion set forth above, it is the Company's view that your policy of title insurance does not afford you coverage for the matter you have raised regarding the encroachments by your neighbor's two fences, the newer one running to the northwest corner of your garage and the older one beginning at the northeast corner of your garage, and both of which block your access to the approximately 18 inch by approximately 65 foot strip of your property. Generally speaking, and without limitation any claim your neighbor may have or purports to have to the portion of your property at issue falls within the following exceptions from coverage portion of your policy, under Schedule B, Part 1. Under paragraph 2, there is no coverage for matters not shown by the public records but which could have been ascertained by an inspection of the land. An inspection of your property before you purchased it would have shown that the longer, back, older fence was not on the property line, but rather encroached onto your property by approximately 18 inches. Paragraph 3 states you have no coverage for easements that are not shown by the public records. There are no recorded documents reflecting an easement in favor of your neighbor to the north who owns Lot 9 (and part of Lot 8), 9136 Benedict Canyon. Further, under Paragraph 4, conflicts in boundary lines, shortages in area, encroachments, or any of the facts a correct survey would have disclosed, not shown in the public records, are not covered. No survey was obtained by you before you purchased your property and there are no public records reflecting any claim by your neighbor (or his predecessors) to any portion of your land.
In addition, under the Exclusions from Coverage portion of your policy, at Paragraph 3, your neighbor's newer fence that runs into the northwest corner of your garage, blocking your access to the strip of land, was erected while you lived on your property and after the Policy was issued. An adverse claim to your land or a portion thereof (a) created, suffered, assumed, or agreed to by you, or (d) created subsequent to the Date of Policy is not covered by your policy. You advised me the newer fence was built approximately 1 ½ years ago; i.e. after the date of your policy (April 1, 1998). In addition, because the fence was built while you lived on your property and it has been in existence for approximately 1 ½ years, it could be reasonably viewed that you "suffered, assumed or agreed to" its construction and maintenance.
By this letter, the Company is not asserting that you do not have any claim against other persons with respect to these matters. The Company is not in apposition to advise you as to whether claims against any other person do or do not exist. This Letter relates only to the claims you made to the Company under the subject policy of title insurance.
Last edited:
John_Lewis
New Member
If you feel that your neighbor fully knows that the fence is NOT on the true line, you may have no other recourse but to consult an attorney. [I am not an lawyer, but I am going through an adverse possession case with my neighbors and have done extensive research on it] I do believe you could "quiet title" your property and that would give your neighbor the oppertunity to contest you on the line and claim adverse possession. He may be able to "tack on" the time that he has owned his propertry to the previous owners time and that might give his claim to the land more time than your claim. [depends on your state laws] I can tell you from my experiance, this can be a long and expensive haul. I been fighting for almost two years now, and if it was over a couple of feet, I wouldnt have bothered, but in my case they want half of my one and a half acres!! Have tryed countless times to settle this but they wont allow anything less then them gaining land and my losing it. [wont be so bad, but they owned my property and sold it almost 30 years ago] You would think things like this would be simple......black and white.........but they are not and can run thousands of dollars. Thats why I suggest, If you can work out a solution with a face to face talk with the neighbors, you would be better off, if not consult a real estate attorney and see what he/she says as to what your options are. Good luck and keep us posted!
Hi,
What if I just tear the fence down, its on my property??
John
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