Consumer Law, Warranties Naivety Taken Advantage of

[rjerome]

My daughter who is 19 - a really good kid, but naive - went with some of her friends to take a tour of a University apartment complex in July 2010.

When the tour ended, she ended up signing what she thought was an application to get one of the apartments only to learn later that she signed a one year lease agreement. She states that the representative just told her to initial certain places on the form and sign. So she did.

According to their website all applicants must go through an application process, pay a $35 application fee, and go through a criminal background check. There was no mention of employment verification which I thought was odd. I have never seen anyone get an apartment and not have a job. (My daughter has never worked and does not have a job).

I called the apartment complex and they tell me that they waived all application fees and that my daughter was approved based only on her clean criminal record. When I asked them whether they cared or not she had a job or not, they said that was a non-issue. I thought that was odd.

My daughter did not think anymore about it until a few days ago (September 23, 2010) when she gets a threatening letter saying she owes $932 in back rent.

She never received a key and never moved in. She did not know she had entered into a lease agreement until she called them to see what it was all about.

They told her (and me, her Father) that she entered into a legal agreement with them and she is obligated to pay else they will "evict her" and put the case in collections and that her credit will be affected.

I was angered by this.

Why would an apartment complex first of all allow a minor with no job enter into a lease agreement and have no employment verification? Legal adult age is 21 in NC and my daughter is 19 years old.

Second, why wait nearly three months and then send a letter demanding payment. Did they not know that the apartment was vacant? That "they" did not issue a key?

My daughter states - and her friends will vouch - that they were in the office just before it was about to close and the representative rushed her through initialing a bunch of forms and the process lasted less than 5 minutes.

When I called the apartment complex and asked them some of the questions I posed here, they were very evasive. When I asked to speak to the representative who spoke with my daughter, I had to go through two people to get to her. Her supervisors where protecting her.

They said she was not in but would call me back. Well, she did. And, I am sure after her boss coached her on what to say.

They were unmoving in their position and threatened court action against my daughter is traumatized over this.

They state that my daughter was of legal age and knew what she was doing.

I disagree. My daughter does not have a job and it would not be logical for her to enter into a lease agreement.

I believe the "legal" adult age in NC is 21.

Based on that, I do not believe that this "lease" agreement is binding unless there is a parental consent on it. Neither myself or my daughters mother (my ex-wife) ever signed a consent.

Input and advice, please.

Thanks.

 

[irish223]

My daughter who is 19 - a really good kid, but naive - went with some of her friends to take a tour of a University apartment complex in July 2010.

When the tour ended, she ended up signing what she thought was an application to get one of the apartments only to learn later that she signed a one year lease agreement. She states that the representative just told her to initial certain places on the form and sign. So she did.

According to their website all applicants must go through an application process, pay a $35 application fee, and go through a criminal background check. There was no mention of employment verification which I thought was odd. I have never seen anyone get an apartment and not have a job. (My daughter has never worked and does not have a job).

I called the apartment complex and they tell me that they waived all application fees and that my daughter was approved based only on her clean criminal record. When I asked them whether they cared or not she had a job or not, they said that was a non-issue. I thought that was odd.

My daughter did not think anymore about it until a few days ago (September 23, 2010) when she gets a threatening letter saying she owes $932 in back rent.

She never received a key and never moved in. She did not know she had entered into a lease agreement until she called them to see what it was all about.

They told her (and me, her Father) that she entered into a legal agreement with them and she is obligated to pay else they will "evict her" and put the case in collections and that her credit will be affected.

I was angered by this.

Why would an apartment complex first of all allow a minor with no job enter into a lease agreement and have no employment verification? Legal adult age is 21 in NC and my daughter is 19 years old.

Second, why wait nearly three months and then send a letter demanding payment. Did they not know that the apartment was vacant? That "they" did not issue a key?

My daughter states - and her friends will vouch - that they were in the office just before it was about to close and the representative rushed her through initialing a bunch of forms and the process lasted less than 5 minutes.

When I called the apartment complex and asked them some of the questions I posed here, they were very evasive. When I asked to speak to the representative who spoke with my daughter, I had to go through two people to get to her. Her supervisors where protecting her.

They said she was not in but would call me back. Well, she did. And, I am sure after her boss coached her on what to say.

They were unmoving in their position and threatened court action against my daughter is traumatized over this.

They state that my daughter was of legal age and knew what she was doing.

I disagree. My daughter does not have a job and it would not be logical for her to enter into a lease agreement.

I believe the "legal" adult age in NC is 21.

Based on that, I do not believe that this "lease" agreement is binding unless there is a parental consent on it. Neither myself or my daughters mother (my ex-wife) ever signed a consent.

Input and advice, please.

Thanks.

The age of majority in NC is 18, not 21. The lease is binding, no parental consent was needed.

Furthermore, it is not at all uncommon for unemployed university students to sign apartment lease agreements. All of my kids did during their years in college, and none were employed during the school year, nor did the management companies require cosigners or parental consent.

I'm not saying that you can't fight this, but I think your only valid argument will be that she was told she was signing an application, not a lease.

 

[rjerome]

Thank you. I just look it up and you are correct. I also saw that the age of majority may not necessarily correspond to actual mental or physical maturity of an individual.

Mentally, my daughter is "green." She has never been out in the world and does not know what a "lease" is.

I would like to hear other inputs on this as it appears from the evasive attitude of this particular apartment complex and their rush to fill vacancies, and the hour late hour (at closing) they spoke with my daughter, I believe they took advantage of her.

They admitted to me that it was near closing that my daughter came in. My daughter said that they placed documents in front of her and quickly had her initial and sign as they were in a hurry to close up shop. The process was less than five minutes.

My daughter left under the impression that she was just filling out an application for an apartment - not a lease.

I have rented many times and know that first is the application process, an approval process, and then a lease signing. This is usually over a span of time - not all in the same day.

In one setting she did an application and a lease. Like I stated earlier, their website says that there is a definite application process and there is a $35 application fee.

My daughter did not pay them anything.

I believe they put her into a lease and cloaked it as an application.

That is preying on innocent ones.

Why would the manager not want me to talk to the representative who sat with my daughter? (only three employees there).

Why wait two months and then contact her by letter saying she owes them money. They never gave her a key and my daughter never moved in and thought nothing more of it.

I will fight this because of the way they handled it. They bypassed their own policy for application as stated clearly on their website.

 

[army judge]

The apartment complex may be a predatory lessor.

Their business practices appear flawed.

But, ask yourself, why would they do this? You can't get blood from a turnip, can you? They can't sue the parents of adult college students. Besides, the parents aren't involved in the transaction.

Could your daughter not be telling you the truth about the encounter? Is she leaving things out for her protection?

The actions of the apartment complex don't make solid business sense. Even 19 year young adults don't sign things without asking why or reading. Have you seen these alleged lease documents?

If it were me, I'd want to see the documents. I'd want to hear more from my daughter.

After conducting a thorough, independent investigation, I'd speak to the university housing office. They could shed some additional light on the apartment complex's actions.

 

[rjerome]

Thank you for your reply.

While I did think about the business sense. I also viewed it from the business-sense standpoint of why would they lease to a person who has no job, never held a job, and has no financial aid. Unless, they were counting on the parents to bail her out.

The apartment complex threatened eviction and placing this in collections which will ruin a naive 19 year olds credit.

I spoke with the apartment complex manager and she said they explained to my daughter that she was entering into a lease agreement. But the manager said that she was not present when the agent who spoke to my daughter.

They also said that two of them were in the room when my daughter was being interviewed then changed the story saying they were in the building but not in the room. They changed the story because I asked "who" was the other person and they could not get the story straight. (there are only three employees). The manager went on and on about how he could vouch for the integrity of his two employees.

My concern is that they were closing; they admit that. My daughter said they placed documents before her and just told her to initial and sign here and there. All in less than 5 minutes. The manager says a lease signing takes about 20-25 minutes as they explain each section and ensure the person understands.

My daughter said that the representative did not do that as it was less than five minutes in sitting with the rep. Stating that she was in a hurry to close up and go home. She just had her initial and sign. Yes, I know my daughter should have not signed before reading, but as I said, she is naive and never done anything like that before. She did not know what she was doing and I suspect the apartment representative knew this and "rushed" her into signing.

My daughter is a very cautious person and has a pattern of calling me on little things she is not sure about. She just graduated High School, not wild, does not drink, use drugs, or attend wild parties. In fact, she stays to herself a lot and reads books. She is very shy and quiet and lives with her mother. It is not her pattern to lie (not saying she did not), but it is not a pattern with her. She can be easily taken advantage of. Anyone meeting her for the first time will easily pick up on that.

 

[army judge]

Nevertheless, why not inquire further?

I'm not calling anyone a liar.

I'm simply advising you to dig a little deeper along all fronts.

You mentioned eviction.
How can that be?
Did your daughter receive a set of keys?
Did she perform a walkthrough of the premises?
Did she receive a mailing address?
How can she be evicted, if she did none of those things?

Furthermore, only a judge can order a person's eviction.
An apartment manager or landlord can only issue their tenant a notice to vacate.

Here's something to ponder.
No landlord is going to give a prospective tenant keys, unless they've received payment.
Was the landlord paid?
Were keys ever issued?
There are many things to ponder.

 

[rjerome]

Thank you for your reply.

I dug deeper and my daughter maintains that she did not know that she was signing a lease. That she would not commit to signing anything that she could not pay for. She has never had a job and does not work now.

My daughter maintains that the encounter with the representative was so short, that the young woman never even sat down. She placed a document down on the table and told my daughter where to initial and sign.

I spoke with the representative and she said even though they were closing, she took the time to explain all 31 items on the document as my daughter initialed by them. I asked her if she was in a hurry and had some place to go? She said no. I asked her if she sat down? She said yes. I asked her how ling does it take to fill out and sit down with a person who applies for getting an apartment? She says 32-30 minutes. My daughter says that the young woman is lying and there encounter was less than five minutes. It was simply a quick initial and sign session without any explanation.

I had to go through two people (Manager and Manager's assistant) before they agreed to let me speak with this representative of theirs. I caught both of them in a lie. Both said that they were with the representative as she was interviewing my daughter. I pressed them. I asked if it is normal to have three people on one person? Don't you have other customers? Then they both changed their story and said that they were in the building. I said well, that means that you were not physically present with your representative and my daughter. "Well, sir, we were in the building and we trust and can vouch for the integrity of our representative." I stated that I trust my daughter to.

Yes, I am an African American and so is my daughter and it amazes me how often we are viewed as a people who have no integrity. And it appears that all I was hearing from the Manager was how honest her representative was and implying my daughter was not. My daughter does not swear, drink, do drugs, go to wild parties, etc. She is very respectful of elders and always addresses them with a maam or sir.

When I did speak to her she said that she did not remember my daughter as she sees many people in her day. I asked her if she had the document (lease) that my daughter signed and that she went over with her? She said she had it in front of her as we were speaking. I asked her if she initialed or signed the document? She said her manager does that. Then she all of a sudden said that my daughter knew she was signing a lease. I said to her, I thought you said you did not remember my daughter.

The apartment complex said they will initiate eviction proceedings against my daughter and place the case in collections if she does not pay the $932 past due rent by Sept 25. They also said that it can all affect her credit rating.

Well, Sept 25 comes and goes and then yesterday, Oct 1, my daughter receives an automated voice message from them saying that her rent is past due. They said they were going to initiate eviction and collection proceedings. So why are they calling her now. They did not call her back in July and August.

I mentioned to the manager how can evict someone who has never occupied the dwelling, never received keys, never paid a security deposit, no mailing address, never paid rent, never paid any fee what so ever?

I assured the manager that as a parent, I wanted to give my daughter the same benefit of the doubt that she has given to her employee.

She acted as if she did not hear anything I said and just threatened taking my daughter to court.

I asked why don't she just rent the apartment. She said she cannot because it belongs to my daughter by lease agreement.

I get the overall impression that they have not been forthcoming.

I thought about waiting hoping they are bluffing. Now, I think I will hire a lawyer to handle this. I don't have much money but I have to find a way.

My daughter is a first year student at a local community college and I do not want this to distract her from her studies. She is very worried that she died something wrong.

All the apartment complex cares about is that they have a legal document in their hands and that my daughter is bond by it and owes them money.

I question the process they used to get that "legal" document and how can my daughter owe money when she was never given keys or paid any kind of fee upfront or ever. How can she be evicted when she was never in the apartment?

 

[army judge]

Thank you for your reply.

I dug deeper and my daughter maintains that she did not know that she was signing a lease. That she would not commit to signing anything that she could not pay for. She has never had a job and does not work now.

My daughter maintains that the encounter with the representative was so short, that the young woman never even sat down. She placed a document down on the table and told my daughter where to initial and sign.

I spoke with the representative and she said even though they were closing, she took the time to explain all 31 items on the document as my daughter initialed by them. I asked her if she was in a hurry and had some place to go? She said no. I asked her if she sat down? She said yes. I asked her how ling does it take to fill out and sit down with a person who applies for getting an apartment? She says 32-30 minutes. My daughter says that the young woman is lying and there encounter was less than five minutes. It was simply a quick initial and sign session without any explanation.

I had to go through two people (Manager and Manager's assistant) before they agreed to let me speak with this representative of theirs. I caught both of them in a lie. Both said that they were with the representative as she was interviewing my daughter. I pressed them. I asked if it is normal to have three people on one person? Don't you have other customers? Then they both changed their story and said that they were in the building. I said well, that means that you were not physically present with your representative and my daughter. "Well, sir, we were in the building and we trust and can vouch for the integrity of our representative." I stated that I trust my daughter to.

Yes, I am an African American and so is my daughter and it amazes me how often we are viewed as a people who have no integrity. And it appears that all I was hearing from the Manager was how honest her representative was and implying my daughter was not. My daughter does not swear, drink, do drugs, go to wild parties, etc. She is very respectful of elders and always addresses them with a maam or sir.

When I did speak to her she said that she did not remember my daughter as she sees many people in her day. I asked her if she had the document (lease) that my daughter signed and that she went over with her? She said she had it in front of her as we were speaking. I asked her if she initialed or signed the document? She said her manager does that. Then she all of a sudden said that my daughter knew she was signing a lease. I said to her, I thought you said you did not remember my daughter.

The apartment complex said they will initiate eviction proceedings against my daughter and place the case in collections if she does not pay the $932 past due rent by Sept 25. They also said that it can all affect her credit rating.

Well, Sept 25 comes and goes and then yesterday, Oct 1, my daughter receives an automated voice message from them saying that her rent is past due. They said they were going to initiate eviction and collection proceedings. So why are they calling her now. They did not call her back in July and August.

I mentioned to the manager how can evict someone who has never occupied the dwelling, never received keys, never paid a security deposit, no mailing address, never paid rent, never paid any fee what so ever?

I assured the manager that as a parent, I wanted to give my daughter the same benefit of the doubt that she has given to her employee.

She acted as if she did not hear anything I said and just threatened taking my daughter to court.

I asked why don't she just rent the apartment. She said she cannot because it belongs to my daughter by lease agreement.

I get the overall impression that they have not been forthcoming.

I thought about waiting hoping they are bluffing. Now, I think I will hire a lawyer to handle this. I don't have much money but I have to find a way.

My daughter is a first year student at a local community college and I do not want this to distract her from her studies. She is very worried that she died something wrong.

All the apartment complex cares about is that they have a legal document in their hands and that my daughter is bond by it and owes them money.

I question the process they used to get that "legal" document and how can my daughter owe money when she was never given keys or paid any kind of fee upfront or ever. How can she be evicted when she was never in the apartment?

I have three adult children and six grandchildren.

I know that children and adults lie.

If you believe your daughter (who is an adult), then you can hire a lawyer to defend these scurrilous accusations.

On the other hand, maybe paying $900 to make this disappear is easier than hiring a lawyer for $1,500 to $2,500.

Or, you can help her defend these allegations.

There is nothing more that I can do for you, but wish you luck, whatever course of action you choose!

 

[rjerome]

Thanks

Again thanks for your reply. Your posts have been helpful.

Paying $900 does not make it go away and yes adults and kids lie. (The representative who was with my daughter was a student who just started working there part time and the same age as my daughter. I just found this out)

My daughter would be liable for the rest of the rent remaining on the 12-month lease totaling over $5300.

* The apartment acknowledged that they did not issue any keys. (But did not volunteer that information)

* Never moved in.
* Never had a mailing address
* Never asked for a security deposit or the first months rent.
* Never paid anything

These are spanking brand new facilities. They make it too easy for anyone to get an apartment. Even though they have a stated policy and application process, they waived it with regard to my daughter. Maybe because my daughter dresses like she has deep pockets.

That process appears at:

universitysuites.net/greenville/leasing-info-for-student-apartments

My daughter did none of those things.

I would rather put these people on a stage so that this does not happen to someone else.

 

[irish223]

This is an obvious question, but I didn't see it addressed. I suspect the answer is "No", but I'll ask anyway....

In your first post, you said that your daughter was with friends. Were they with her when she initialed/signed the documents?

 

[army judge]

Again thanks for your reply. Your posts have been helpful.

Paying $900 does not make it go away and yes adults and kids lie. (The representative who was with my daughter was a student who just started working there part time and the same age as my daughter. I just found this out)

My daughter would be liable for the rest of the rent remaining on the 12-month lease totaling over $5300.

* The apartment acknowledged that they did not issue any keys. (But did not volunteer that information)

* Never moved in.
* Never had a mailing address
* Never asked for a security deposit or the first months rent.
* Never paid anything

These are spanking brand new facilities. They make it too easy for anyone to get an apartment. Even though they have a stated policy and application process, they waived it with regard to my daughter. Maybe because my daughter dresses like she has deep pockets.

That process appears at:

universitysuites.net/greenville/leasing-info-for-student-apartments

My daughter did none of those things.

I would rather put these people on a stage so that this does not happen to someone else.

You have no standing in this matter.
Your daughter is an adult.
She would have to bring the lawsuit.
You could assist her by paying for her lawyer, but she would be the litigant.

You would have nothing legally relevant to contribute to her case. You weren't there.

Irish's query could help, what are her friends saying about this? What did they see and observe? Or, did they abandon her?

 

[rjerome]

re:

You have no standing in this matter.
Your daughter is an adult.
She would have to bring the lawsuit.
You could assist her by paying for her lawyer, but she would be the litigant.

You would have nothing legally relevant to contribute to her case. You weren't there.

Irish's query could help, what are her friends saying about this? What did they see and observe? Or, did they abandon her?

Again, thank you.

My focus here is not on myself, but as a responsible parent; and a more experienced person. None should never stop being a parent.

I understand, that it is my daughter who must bring the suit. (I can provide financial support and parental support).

My daughters friend did accompany her to the facility but was not in the office in which my daughter and the representative were; but in a lobby where the office can be seen at a distance.

No she did not see my daughter initial or sign anything; she only can only attest that the encounter in the office was very brief (less than 5 minutes) and they were out of there.

 

[rjerome]

This is an obvious question, but I didn't see it addressed. I suspect the answer is "No", but I'll ask anyway....

In your first post, you said that your daughter was with friends. Were they with her when she initialed/signed the documents?

Thanks for your input.

One of her friends was with her (they drove together) but not in the same office where my daughter and the representative were. She does say that they encounter between them was very brief (less than five minutes) as they were closing.

A lot of her friends initially met up with her there to take the tour. After the tour they left and my daughter and her friend who rode with her were the only two who stayed behind go get brochures, pamphlets and other info. She tells me that she did not think my daughter was signing a lease but filling out an application to be placed on a waiting list to get an apartment with the understanding that there would be a formal application for approval to involve credit checks, employment verification and something about getting parent approval if no job or something like that.

Perhaps the kids are not being fully truthful, but based on my encounter with the Apartment Complex, neither are they.

As of to date, they have not taken legal action or initiated eviction. I don't know how they would be able to evict someone when no keys or address was given, neither was there a walk-thru, nor was the dwelling ever occupied.

Maybe, I am missing something here, but it does not add up.