Life Insurance

[AC2018]

Jurisdiction

Texas

Is it fraud for grandparents who have no financial interest to take out policies on all my children and putting themselves as the beneficiary? There is no contact between the parents and the grandparents. When asked about the policies via text, there was a read receipt but no reply confirming that they have active life insurance policies. There is no intent to make me, the parent aware of the policies. The insurance company has told me to send a cancelation request for the policies with the children's birth certificates to prove I am the legal parent.

 

[adjusterjack]

Is it fraud for grandparents who have no financial interest to take out policies on all my children and putting themselves as the beneficiary?

No, not at all.

In fact, it's quite common and legal.

What's likely happening is that the grandparents took out policies that accumulate cash value where they pay the premiums for 20 years or so, the policies get fully paid up, and they give the policies as gifts when the children are adults.

That's a good thing.

So I don't know why you are getting your skirts in a twist over it. I suggest you leave it alone. It's really none of your business what the grandparents do with their money and it's no different than if they just put money into a savings account in trust for the children.

Whatever your beef is with the grandparents, don't penalize your children about something they will be happy to have when they become adults.

 

[AC2018]

No, not at all.

In fact, it's quite common and legal.

What's likely happening is that the grandparents took out policies that accumulate cash value where they pay the premiums for 20 years or so, the policies get fully paid up, and they give the policies as gifts when the children are adults.

That's a good thing.

So I don't know why you are getting your skirts in a twist over it. I suggest you leave it alone. It's really none of your business what the grandparents do with their money and it's no different than if they just put money into a savings account in trust for the children.

Whatever your beef is with the grandparents, don't penalize your children about something they will be happy to have when they become adults.

I am fully aware that the policies should turn over at the age of maturity for the kids benefit. However, his history of taking out child whole life policies (on me and my sister) were never turned over to us. We were never made aware of these policies and I am not even sure what happened to them. It should be a positive gift for my children, however if one of my children were to pass, he would not use the money to bury my child and it then would become a monetary gain for him and his wife. That is insurance fraud.

 

[AC2018]

I am fully aware that the policies should turn over at the age of maturity for the kids benefit. However, his history of taking out child whole life policies (on me and my sister) were never turned over to us. We were never made aware of these policies and I am not even sure what happened to them. It should be a positive gift for my children, however if one of my children were to pass, he would not use the money to bury my child and it then would become a monetary gain for him and his wife. That is insurance fraud.

I will also add that he has a history of being found guilty in court of Statutory
Fraud and being penalized 780,000 in damages. I find it a bit strange he took out the last policy on my baby daughter who is one month old that he's never met on the same day that I told him to have no more contact with me or my kids. Which he gladly agreed to, his exact words were "Excellent. Thank you."

 

[cbg]

It's still not fraud.

 

[adjusterjack]

That is insurance fraud.

It's not.

I put the question to life insurance agents on an insurance website and confirmed that consent of the parents is not required by life insurance companies.

The grand parents can buy, own, and be beneficiaries of the childrens' policies without your consent. It's their money.

The insurance company has told me to send a cancelation request for the policies with the children's birth certificates to prove I am the legal parent.

I find that hard to accept. The insurance company has a contract with the buyer of the insurance and cancelling it without the buyer's consent is breach of contract. But if you can get an insurance company to do it I don't see what good it will do you as the grandparents can easily go to another insurance company, take out new policies, and just not tell you about them.

 

[army judge]

A person (or an entity) can buy life insurance on anyone in which they have an insurable interest.

You can buy life insurance on your spouse, your children, your grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc...

A business can buy life insurance on their key employees.

A partner in a business can buy life insurance on her business partner.

This premise is as old as our civilization and its codification of laws.

 

[AC2018]

A person (or an entity) can buy life insurance on anyone in which they have an insurable interest.

You can buy life insurance on your spouse, your children, your grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc...

A business can buy life insurance on their key employees.

A partner in a business can buy life insurance on her business partner.

This premise is as old as our civilization and its codification of laws.

Yes I know all of this. You aren't understanding what I am saying is insurance fraud. If they have no contact with the children they really have no insurable interest with them, I also hold insurance policies on my children, therefore there's is even less of an insurable interest because I hold policies. If they have no intent of using the hypothetical insurance payout
On my child for that purpose and it is primarily for their financial gain then that would be considered insurance fraud. Beneficiaries can always be contested also at the time of death. I have spoken with life insurance agents who have said that this situation is not typical when the intent is to help the parents at the time of death of their child, in that case the beneficiary is usually the parent, not the grandparent. You all are only touching the surface of what I am saying. All of your posts are common knowledge and not what my question was pertaining to.

 

[army judge]

Yes I know all of this. You aren't understanding what I am saying is insurance fraud. If they have no contact with the children they really have no insurable interest with them, I also hold insurance policies on my children, therefore there's is even less of an insurable interest because I hold policies. If they have no intent of using the hypothetical insurance payout
On my child for that purpose and it is primarily for their financial gain then that would be considered insurance fraud. Beneficiaries can always be contested also at the time of death. I have spoken with life insurance agents who have said that this situation is not typical when the intent is to help the parents at the time of death of their child, in that case the beneficiary is usually the parent, not the grandparent. You all are only touching the surface of what I am saying. All of your posts are common knowledge and not what my question was pertaining to.

You want better information pay for, hire a lawyer.

Free advice is just that FREE.

YOU get the value you expend, free gets free.

Apparently the authorities in your jurisdiction don't care.

If you're adamantly opposed to the actions of their grandparents speak to a lawyer and sue them, talk to your elected officials, complain to law enforcement, talk to insurance company officials, or learn to live with things you can't change.

Most of what goes on in this country today I dislike, so I try to stay inside my home or on my my ranch where I make my own laws.

 

[cbg]

Taking out the policy is not fraud.

Failing to provide the proceeds of an eventual payout as indicated by the terms of the policy might be.

 

[adjusterjack]

You aren't understanding what I am saying is insurance fraud.

Yes, I do understand what you are SAYING. And what you are SAYING is only your perception of what is happening and is not supported by LAW.

The grandparents may have an entirely different story as to their intent for taking out the polices. But even that doesn't matter because the consent of the parents is not a legal requirement that any life insurance company has to comply with.

All of your posts are common knowledge and not what my question was pertaining to.

Of course it is. You're just not getting it. You want to stop the grandparents from taking out policies on your children and it's not going to happen.

 

[AC2018]

You want better information pay for, hire a lawyer.

Free advice is just that FREE.

YOU get the value you expend, free gets free.

Apparently the authorities in your jurisdiction don't care.

If you're adamantly opposed to the actions of their grandparents speak to a lawyer and sue them, talk to your elected officials, complain to law enforcement, talk to insurance company officials, or learn to live with things you can't change.

Most of what goes on in this country today I dislike, so I try to stay inside my home or on my my ranch where I make my own laws.

I did make a police report and have spoken to the civil court and they are calling me back this week, was utilizing this website to see if any useful information could come of it thanks.

 

[zddoodah]

Is it fraud for grandparents who have no financial interest to take out policies on all my children and putting themselves as the beneficiary?

No, and a grandparent certainly has an insurable interest in a grandchild's life. However, the insurer should notify the insured (or, if the insured is a minor, the insured's parents), which apparently has been done.

The insurance company has told me to send a cancelation request for the policies with the children's birth certificates to prove I am the legal parent.

And there you go. No issue.

I am fully aware that the policies should turn over at the age of maturity for the kids benefit.

Are you saying that "adjusterjack's" speculation that these are whole life policies was correct?

However, his history of taking out child whole life policies (on me and my sister) were never turned over to us. We were never made aware of these policies and I am not even sure what happened to them. It should be a positive gift for my children, however if one of my children were to pass, he would not use the money to bury my child and it then would become a monetary gain for him and his wife. That is insurance fraud.

It most certainly is not. Even if it were, by contacting the insurer and having the policy cancelled, you've done everything you can do. If the insurer believes that insurance fraud was committed, it can pursue the matter through the Department of Insurance.

If they have no contact with the children they really have no insurable interest with them,

What does and doesn't constitute an insurable interest is a matter of law. It's not something about which you can have an opinion. Are you aware of any Texas statute or case decision that says or held that, if a grandparent has no contact with a grandchild, he/she has no insurable interest in the child's life? I doubt any such statute or case exists, but I would certainly be interested to know if such a statute or case does exist.

I also hold insurance policies on my children, therefore there's is even less of an insurable interest because I hold policies.

That has nothing to do with anything.

If they have no intent of using the hypothetical insurance payout
On my child for that purpose and it is primarily for their financial gain then that would be considered insurance fraud.

No, and how do you know what his intent is?

Taking out the policy is not fraud.

Failing to provide the proceeds of an eventual payout as indicated by the terms of the policy might be.

Huh? Life insurance policies don't dictate what the beneficiary(ies) must do with the proceeds.

 

[AC2018]

No, and a grandparent certainly has an insurable interest in a grandchild's life. However, the insurer should notify the insured (or, if the insured is a minor, the insured's parents), which apparently has been done.



And there you go. No issue.



Are you saying that "adjusterjack's" speculation that these are whole life policies was correct?



It most certainly is not. Even if it were, by contacting the insurer and having the policy cancelled, you've done everything you can do. If the insurer believes that insurance fraud was committed, it can pursue the matter through the Department of Insurance.



What does and doesn't constitute an insurable interest is a matter of law. It's not something about which you can have an opinion. Are you aware of any Texas statute or case decision that says or held that, if a grandparent has no contact with a grandchild, he/she has no insurable interest in the child's life? I doubt any such statute or case exists, but I would certainly be interested to know if such a statute or case does exist.



That has nothing to do with anything.



No, and how do you know what his intent is?



Huh? Life insurance policies don't dictate what the beneficiary(ies) must do with the proceeds.

Actually yes they do. You can't not just take out an insurance policy on anyone you want to get rich off of it. There are laws preventing this. Go research.

 

[army judge]

You can't not just take out an insurance policy on anyone you want to get rich off of it.

Rich a relative, entirely meaningless word, because to some $100,000 is rich, to others $1,000,000 is peanuts.

Insurance companies certainly make profits off of your premiums, not your death and the payout.

Actuarial tables help insurers calculate their risks and your costs.

Make money, yes, and its perfectly legal!

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[adjusterjack]

You can't not just take out an insurance policy on anyone you want to get rich off of it. There are laws preventing this.

That statement is actually true. There are laws, company policies, policy provisions, all designed to prevent insurance fraud.

But not within the context of a grandparent buying a policy on a grandchild.

You can keep banging your head against the wall until the cows come home but your hostility toward the grandparents isn't going to change that.

No need to keep kicking this dead horse.

Thread locked.