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Leaseholder doesn't live in the house but gives 30-day eviction Eviction Notice

Discussion in 'Eviction, Recovery of Premises' started by maryjanebarger, Oct 10, 2013.

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  1. maryjanebarger

    maryjanebarger Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I have 4 questions regarding an eviction. My daughter attends college in the Los Angeles, CA area. She started renting a house with 2 other students this past Aug., 2013. One student's dad is the leaseholder but does not live there. My daughter had a party where two friends of friends got together in the dad's daughter's room and had inner course. My daughter has verbally been given a 30-day eviction notice for not watching over her guests. The month-to-month rent has been paid in full.
    Question 1: Can the dad (leaseholder) truly evict my daughter, a tenant?

    I have argued the unfairness in this matter. The dad is angry for me questioning his actions and for adding factual information to the events that have taken place. He is now being retaliatory and a bully. Out of anger towards me, the dad is threatening to change it to a 3-day notice.
    Question 2: Can he do that?

    The 30-day notice was sent to my husband and me probably because we pay the rent. It has not been given to my daughter.
    Question 3: Is this a legal form of eviction?

    The 30-day notice states that my daughter is being evicted based on "breaking the least agreement". The dad refuses to send us the lease agreement that he has with the owner. We suspect it is because his daughter is paying less in rent or other reason.
    Question 4: Does my daughter have the right to remain in the house until she is given a copy of the lease agreement?
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  2. Michael Wechsler

    Michael Wechsler Administrator Staff Member

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    1. Why doesn't your daughter have a copy of her lease agreement? You must be talking about the landlord's lease with the leaseholder / father. Key question - what is the rental agreement between the father and your daughter? Was it month to month? Was it agreed that it would be for a longer period of time?

    2. The leaseholder will not be able to evict your daughter without the assistance of a court. If he goes to court and wins, it could be an expensive stay. But by the same token, if there is nothing in the lease that addresses this issue and would constitute a material breach of the lease, then it could be an extremely expensive eviction proceeding by the leaseholder.

    Question - is the father not evicting your daughter but giving her a 30 day notice of non-renewal of a month to month lease? If so, it could get complicated. If there is such a month to month agreement then the father would be within his rights to simply not renew the month-to-month rental agreement. I don't know for sure the entire situation.

    The leaseholder / father should have served the notice on your daughter even though you might be supplying her with the checks. I'm not going to tell you that it certainly makes a difference (which I would certain argue it does). But this is an untenable situation. If he wants to evict her he'll require assistance from the court. If he has to send another notice then essentially your daughter might only have another 30 day period - but that will extend this towards finals time. You might want to speak with the father and tell him that given the time he'll need to get her out legally, you might want to discuss your daughter leaving after this semester if that's what he wants to do. Good luck.
     
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  3. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    1. It sounds like your daughter is not a tenant, but a subtenant, though her rights are really the same. A verbal notice is not an eviction notice. A verbal notice is the equivalent to saying "pretty please move out". An eviction order will be issued from a court, so no, he can't evict her without going through a court.

    2. Yes, he can say, "Pretty please move out in three days." Your daughter still does not have to move out unless a judge orders her out.

    3. No, and it is not a proper notice to your daughter either. She is the one living there and notice needs to be given to her. The verbal notice to her and the written notice to you mean absolutely nothing.

    4. Your daughter can remain in the house until a judge orders her to leave. If she is forced out by other means then she may possibly bring a civil action for an illegal eviction.

    The writing is on the wall... the deal has gone bad. She would be wise to start looking for a new place, but don't be rushed out.
     
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  4. maryjanebarger

    maryjanebarger Law Topic Starter New Member

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    TheLawProfessor,

    I really appreciate your response!!
    1) Yes, I am talking about a lease agreement that exists between the leaseholder and the owner of the house. The leaseholder (dad) refuses to give us a copy. The two rental documents that were given to my daughter included a list of house rules that the leaseholder wrote such as quiet hours and having guest over. It was sent to my daughter by the leaseholder's daughter but it was never signed and it was never discussed by the 3 girls. The other was a one page form (quoted below) that we signed as parents agreeing to pay for the rent and my daughter agreeing to pay for 1/3 of the utilities by the end of each month. We went off of trust as we shouldn't signed anything. We give money to our daughter and she writes the checks. Here are the terms in the document that we signed (I will refer to them by number as I don't want to use names). Also, the dad said in email on Sunday, October 6th, that he was giving a 30-day eviction notice. My daughter received the notice today which has this back-dated. Legally I think the start of 30 days should be tomorrow, October 11.

    "Girl 1, Girl 2, and Girl 3 have agreed to lease the property at XXX N. XXX Street, XXX, CA 92866 for one year from August 17, 2013 to august 16, 2014. They have agreed to split rent and utilities three-ways with each girl having at least one utility in their own name. this will allow each girl to get a City of XXX Residential Parking Pass. The Direct TV requires a two-year agreement. If the girls do not continue to lease (or find another girl to take their place in the house) after a year, they will split the cancellation fee. Each girl will be responsible for one-third of all utilities and rent for the full year.

    As agreed in our meeting with the landlord (he means his meeting, not including me or the other parent), we will pay a deposit, one-month rent in August and a partial month rent in September followed by regular monthly rent beginning in October:

    Deposit: $666
    Monthly rent: $716
    September partial payment: $358

    The landlord wants rent from one individual, (the dad). Please have a check to me by the 27th of each month, so I can deposit the checks and write a check for the girls' rent by the 1st of the month.

    This agreement is for one year, August 17, 2013 to August 16, 2014. This document will serve as a legal and binding contract for the afore mentioned year. your signature as a parent guarantees payment of rent and utilities."
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Given what I have read it sounds like he must re-issue another 30-day notice with an accurate date that starts the day following receipt of the notice. Am I correct here?

    Thanks again so much. I think the semester ends in early December so having my daughter stay a little longer would help. Otherwise there are places in on-campus housing that she can move into in November.

    Lastly, here is the eviction notice (where he has my name and my daughter's name as joint tenants along with the incorrect dates listed and typos). This is October and not September! He has her eviction listed as October 7, 2013. I'm not a tenant so I know this dad doesn't really know what he is doing.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dated September 6, 2013
    You are hereby being giving to vacate the premises named above at XXX N XXX Street, XXX, CA 92866 county of XXX and state of California.

    The reasons for the eviction are substantially interfered with other tenants and violations of the lease agreement.

    And you are required to vacate the premise on or before October 7, 2013 being 30 days from the date of issuance of this notice. Failure to do this will result in civil proceedings against you for unlawful detainer.

    Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
     
  5. maryjanebarger

    maryjanebarger Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Mightymoose,
    Yes, you are correct. I guess my daughter is considered a sub-tenant to the dad who signed a lease with the owner. You state that he has to go through court? I'm not sure I understand. He just served her with his own written notice (quoted above). However, as you can see he screwed up on the dates and will have to re-issue. After dealing with the dad and his daughter who have fabricated lies against my daughter, after viewing his daughter who can not cope and can not communicate, it will be much healthier and happier for my daughter to leave. We are okay with that. She checked with the university and they gave her many options for on-campus apartments to rent by November 1st. My husband and I can't stand the injustice which is why I want to know our legal rights. The third roommate has broken the exact same rules of the house as my daughter and should be evicted as well. But the dad and his daughter are being retaliatory due to my daughter's friend's friend who entered her room. Similarly, my daughter's room was also violated by the 3rd roommate's friend who broke in through her sliding door and was found sleeping in my daughter's bed without permission. My daughter was shocked to return one night to find him there. My daughter was furious but everyone looked the other way. As you may guess, we are dealing with irrational people and are eager to get my daughter out of there. We just don't want this dad to BULLY her out like he already has by threatening to keep her deposit to help pay for rent in case they don't find another tenant right away.

    Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  6. Brignac

    Brignac Guest

    In California the Landlord cannot evict without there being a breach of the lease agreement. A good source of information for this can be found in the California Civil Procedure under Unlawful Detainer. Generally, in this instance, my company would attack the Unlawful Detainer with a Demurrer or Motion to Quash since the Notice appears to be improperly served.
     
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  7. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    The notice dad provided acknowledges at the end that civil action for unlawful detainer is required. Unlawful detainer is the eviction process through the court. The notice you have received is only a request, not an order that must be followed. If your daughter remains then dad would have to go to court and present an argument to a judge to get the actual eviction order, at which time your daughter would probably be given another 30 days if the order was granted, which doesn't seem likely. The failure to properly give notice and the error with the dates will set dad back to square one if he should pursue anything.
    If your daughter is to leave early you should consider a request to the dad to refund the deposit in full and pay an additional amount to help with moving costs since he is attempting to breach the lease agreement. If he wants you out early then make him pay for it.
     
  8. Michael Wechsler

    Michael Wechsler Administrator Staff Member

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    To the OP - The moose is right on target and did a fantastic job of making clear my rushed response. The only question I had was whether a lease agreement may have also been made with you, or at least argue that it is. Regardless, I'm guessing that you don't even have a written sublease, just an oral lease. As a result, this can work in your favor in the exact manner within which mightymoose describes. Once daddy wises up, he'll be able to commence eviction proceedings within 30 days of serving notice properly. Which is why mightmoose says the writing is on the wall although she doesn't have to leave and why negotiating a semester ending stay is probably the optimal result. In the meanwhile, much can change and possibly the infraction forgotten. And if daddy is still adamant about your daughter leaving, mightymoose has a great suggestion on how to effectuate a move more expeditiously. Good luck.
     
  9. maryjanebarger

    maryjanebarger Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Thank you again "thelawprofessor" "mightymoose" and "Brignac". I made the dad (leaseholder) aware of his typos. He will be changing the dates but the content of the 30-day notice will remain.

    My daughter sent me the two "agreements" originally sent to her by email but that contain many blanks and that she did NOT SIGN and did not return to the leaseholder. I have copied them below.

    The only document that I signed was the one that I typed in above starting with "Girl 1, Girl 2, and Girl 3 have agreed to lease the property at XXX N. XXX Street, XXX, CA 92866 for one year from August 17, 2013 to august 16, 2014....."

    It would be REALLY helpful for my daughter to remain until finals are complete on December 13, 2013. The reason being is that many kids are leaving for study-abroad next semester and that frees up spaces for off-campus houses. With a November move-out date my daughter has less options and most likely will have to move into on-campus apartment housing and have to commit until the end of the school year in May, 2014. It's not a bad deal but she will have to return to sharing a room and living in a tighter environment. At least it would be regulated more fairly through the University.

    Given the extra information that I have provided and from what you knowledgeable and kind samaritans have said, if my daughter's remains in the house past the 30 days should we reply stating that she will be staying? Mightymoose -- you stated "which doesn't seem likely". What exactly doesn't seem likely? When you talk about breaching the lease agreement are you talking about the one that I quoted above containing the dates "August 17, 2013 to August 16, 2014". As I mentioned, my daughter has never been given a copy of the lease agreement that exists between the owner and the dad/leaseholder. My husband has asked for it and the dad refused to give it to us. I'm still not clear on exactly what steps to take -- have my daughter stay put, allow the dad to go to court, then wait for a court order? What happens in a court order?

    Thanks again!


    ------------------------------------------------------------ LEASE RENTAL AGREEMENT --------------------------------------------------------
    LEASE RENTAL AGREEMENT

    ____________________________________

    THIS IS, A LEGALLY BINDING AGREEMENT, READ IT CAREFULLY.

    This agreement is intended to promote unity by clarifying the rights, duties and

    responsibilities of property owner, manager and guest tenant.

    MAKE SURE THAT ALL YOUR AGREEMENTS ARE MADE IN WRITING.

    The Owner, Agent and Renter agree to the following rental conditions listed below:

    This Lease Rental Agreement, shall begin:_________ Terminate:___________

    Owner / Agent: Martin Investments, Paul Martin. Christopher P. Martinez, Manager

    Name: ________________ DR-LC. NO. ___________ S.S. NO._________________

    _______________________ DR-LC.N). _____________S.S.NO._________________

    Location: ____________________________________________________________

    Description: HOUSE: ___________________________________________________

    Rental Market Value ___________________________

    The current rental market value ____________________

    1. RENTERS INSURANCE

    A current Insurance Policy copy will be provided for landlord.

    2. RENT PAYMENT AMOUNT

    ______________________________________________________________

    >TOTAL RENT _______________________________________________

    > To be paid in Cash, Cashier’s Check, or Money Order

    3. FALURE TO PAY RENT

    Rent is due on the 1ST delinquent on the 5th of each month.

    Late charges are 10%, $______________________________

    Plus $___________________________________

    4. SECURITY DEPOSIT

    >Security Deposit in the amount of: ___________________________

    It is clearly understood that Security Deposit, Is Not, part of last month rent.

    5. LEASE AGEEMENT TERMINATION

    >Agreement may be terminated after completion of 1YEAR lease and forty five-
    day, written request.

    6. GUEST OCCUPANCY AND SUBLETTING

    Subletting or temporary stay over of family, friends or guests are prohibited

    VISITING GUEST/S is limited to 10 days, with prior written approval.

    >Extended guest amount is $40.00 forty dollars per day. (no exceptions)

    7. Maintenance

    Landlord will provide monthly Yard and Lawn Service.

    Tenant is to properly care, adequately water, lawn, trees & plants.

    Tenant is to keep surrounding area clean and organized.

    8. UTILITIES

    Tenant will provide GAS, Water, and Electrical Service;

    Tenant_ will provide, telephone lines, cable and satellite dish services.

    9. PARKING & GUEST PARKING

    Renter car/s must be parked in alley of their home.

    No Parking or blocking driveways. Guests must park on street.

    >Street Parking Permits may be obtained from the City of Orange

    10. PATH TO RESOLUTIONS

    In the event issues, disputes and differences cannot be resolved or a mutual

    agreements reached;

    Renter agrees to move out, surrender premises, after three-day notice to vacate.

    Renter waives all rights provided under California Code of Civil Procedures.

    11. RESTRICTIONS

    No Smoking in or around premises.

    No Flammable Material allowed in house or garage – No auto repairs

    No dogs, cat or pets, raising of birds, mammals or reptiles—No aquariums

    No interior plant atrium's – No exterior plant nursery.

    No parking of boats or vehicles. No 2 or 3 wheel, motor cycles.

    No violations of City, State or Federal Laws & Ordinances.

    It is clearly understood that tenants will be responsible any violations

    regarding noise or disturbing the peace that results in warnings or fines from

    city ordinances’ for the said address.

    Any failure to pay rent or other charges, when due, or comply with any

    terms, of agreement, constitutes at the option of owner or agent, after lawful

    notice given, terminate tenancy agreement.

    Tenant shall surrender the premises sanitized and cleared of all personal

    belongings.

    12. Renter agrees to transfer all utilities with in 72 hours of possession.

    Gas_______Water________Elecric_______

    13. Addendums:______________________________________________________

    _____________________________________________________________________

    Total rent $_______________

    Deposit $________________

    Total move in amount is $________________

    Renter_____________________ Date: _______________ Owner/

    Agent____________________ Date: _________________

    MARTIN INVESTMENTS: 170 S. MOHLER DR ANAHEIM HILLS. CA 92808



    ----------------------------------------------------------- STUDENT ROOMMATE AGREEMENT---------------------------------------------------------
    UNIVERSITY STUDENT
    ROOMMATE AGREEMENTS
    THIS ADDENDUM, TO LEASE RENTAL AGREEMENT ENTERED
    INTO, DAY OF ,20—
    COMMENCE DATE: END DATE
    RENTAL UNIT INFORMATION
    Type of rental unit: House. Apartment Rooms
    Number of rental rooms: 1. 2. 3.
    Address: City, , State,
    ROOMMATES AND BEDROOM INFORMATION
    First Roommate: _JPhone No.
    Bedroom: #1.
    Second Roommate: Phone No.
    Bedroom: #2.
    Third Roommate: Phone No.
    Bedroom: #3.
    HOUSE RULES
    1. Only one occupant is allowed in rooms. 1. 2. 3.
    2. It is clearly understood; over night guests are not permitted with out the
    written approval from Landlord.
    3. The amount for approved over night guests is $30.00 per day
    4. No smoking or excessive use of alcohol. No alcohol use in public view
    5. No parties are allowed, without written consent from Landlord &
    approval from roommates.
    6. No food in bedrooms. All food must be stored in kitchen & sealed
    containers, (food draw ants, cockroaches, rats, mice, fungus et.)
    7. Quiet hours are from 9:00 PM to 8:00 AM.
    8. No pets. Dogs, cats, rodents, reptiles.9. Water, front, back and side yards lawns, plants and trees every three days,
    or when needed.
    PARKING AREA
    Number Parking Spaces: 2 Location:
    Parking spaces are for tenants only.
    All vehicles must be kept in operable condition.
    ROOMMATE TERMINATION OF TENANCY
    Landlord and Roommates can terminate another roommate's tenancy under
    the following specific circumstances and conditions.
    1. Failing to pay share of monthly rent.
    2. Failing to pay for household expenses.
    3. Causing damage to unit or premises.
    4. Violating an obligation under the lease agreement.
    Violating this Roommate Agreement.
    NOTE:
    Subletting, or allowing any individual to share or occupy any part of the house, rooms,
    premises or parking spaces is a serious violation of Lease and Roommate. Agreement.
    A copy of this agreement must be approved by landlord or agent'
    I have read and agree to this Roommate Agreement. Date:
    X Rm.# X Rm.#.
    Roommate Roommate
    X Rm. # X
    Agent Roommate, hi Charge Landlord or Agent
     
  10. maryjanebarger

    maryjanebarger Law Topic Starter New Member

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    After doing more reading at Legal services of northern California (lsnc dot net) titled 30-60_day_notice_packet.pdf it appears that my daughter was not properly served. That is, the first 30-day notice with typos came to her in the U.S. mail and that's it. On page 3 of this document the answer to all 4 questions is "NO". I realize that this document is for the Vallejo, CA area but I would think the same laws apply in L.A.

    What I mentioned early on about the dad being a "bully" and also over bearing, unreasonable person still stands. We have learned more about the leasholder's daughter which includes her inability to get along with her roommates last year (her freshman year). The Resident Assistants tried to help but couldn't so she moved back home to the L.A. beach area for the second semester. She has demonstrated an inability to communicate with roommates without running to her dad. This 30-day notice is an obvious retaliatory symbol and a temporary band-aid for the leaseholder's daughter rather than a life-long solution to help her cope with other human beings.

    Thanks again!
     
  11. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    It doesn't seem likely to me that an eviction would be ordered based on the information you provide here. Continue to pay the rent on time and all should be good.
    If your daughter ultimately moves out early, be sure to have something in writing from the landlord releasing her from any obligations.
    The blank and unsigned lease is useless. Without a signed lease she essentially has a month to month agreement which is controlled by statute.
    My mention of breaching the lease agreement was in regard to the girl's father forcing your daughter out before the end of the lease without a justifiable cause to do so. Without a signed written lease both parties are bound by common terms in the Civil Code. I suspect his argument would go nowhere fast if he tried to go to court.
    There is also the question of whether he is legally subletting the apartment and if he has the authority to bring an eviction. His lease agreement with the owner may have the same language forbidding subletting as the one you posted above has. The eviction may have to be brought by the owner/landlord.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
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  12. maryjanebarger

    maryjanebarger Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Thanks again mightymoose! I am not in the legal profession which is why I have been asking for help. But I am an engineer and do understand what you are saying.

    I know who the owner is based on the lease that I pasted above, MARTIN INVESTMENTS: 170 S. MOHLER DR ANAHEIM HILLS. CA 92808, namely Paul A. Martin. His number is listed in many places on the Internet. I tried to call him several times including today to ask questions and to ask if he knows about this eviction. There has been no answer and I haven't left a message so I will have to visit him personally next week. I wouldn't mind hiring someone to help us. I work full-time and dealing with this often makes me lose focus on work tasks.
     
  13. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    Really, there is nobody to hire right now. There is nothing to do but pay the rent on time and keep living there. If you are ever served official court papers then you can look into hiring help. Or, if your daughter is booted out without a court order you can also get legal assistance.
     

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