Juvenile felony charge. Judge has discretion or no?

[viper515]

Jurisdiction

Kansas

12yo juvenile with high functioning mental disorder got himself a very stiff charge. level 1 felony! The facts in the case do not really fit the charge, but per the letter of the law, I guess. The juvenile has never been in trouble and is far from a liability in the system. His misunderstandings in life got him in big trouble. I would wager my life he will not be a repeat offender.

From my readings, it seems to judge might only have "discretion" on the sentencing part? Someone thought it a fine idea to take him to the DA for a full confession so their case is pretty much air tight so this comes down to a plea for understanding with his condition in an effort to not ruin his life, which is about to happen!

Felon for life at age 12. Due to the severity level 1, it cannot be expunged. I believe punishment is reasonable but they are seeking to make him just another product and drain of the system. No employment means welfare. His disability already had him in a tough spot. Couple that with a felony and we are setting him up for failure.

I have talked with several defense attorneys and all agree that not going to turn out well so we will probably go with a court atty as there is little defense. I can try to argue on the mental illness but I don't think the courts will really appreciate this is a 12yo functioning at the mentality of an 8yo.

Can anyone offer points of defense here? It does not sound like the DA will want to bargain at all, just get fat, air tight conviction for life.

I am still a little gray on the procedures in juvenile court. I just want this child to have an opportunity to do something in life. I have read story after story of employment of felons. None of it is good. No one wants a felon on their payroll.

 

[army judge]

12yo juvenile with high functioning mental disorder got himself a very stiff charge. level 1 felony! The facts in the case do not really fit the charge, but per the letter of the law, I guess. The juvenile has never been in trouble and is far from a liability in the system. His misunderstandings in life got him in big trouble. I would wager my life he will not be a repeat offender.

From my readings, it seems to judge might only have "discretion" on the sentencing part? Someone thought it a fine idea to take him to the DA for a full confession so their case is pretty much air tight so this comes down to a plea for understanding with his condition in an effort to not ruin his life, which is about to happen!

Felon for life at age 12. Due to the severity level 1, it cannot be expunged. I believe punishment is reasonable but they are seeking to make him just another product and drain of the system. No employment means welfare. His disability already had him in a tough spot. Couple that with a felony and we are setting him up for failure.

I have talked with several defense attorneys and all agree that not going to turn out well so we will probably go with a court atty as there is little defense. I can try to argue on the mental illness but I don't think the courts will really appreciate this is a 12yo functioning at the mentality of an 8yo.

Can anyone offer points of defense here? It does not sound like the DA will want to bargain at all, just get fat, air tight conviction for life.

I am still a little gray on the procedures in juvenile court. I just want this child to have an opportunity to do something in life. I have read story after story of employment of felons. None of it is good. No one wants a felon on their payroll.

If the child is in juvenile court, in TEXAS and the other states where I practice and serve as a judge, what he's accused of doing is being delinquent.
I'm not sure where you're getting the felony distinction, if the kid is before a juvenile court, unless that is Kansas law.
I'd be surprised it it was because the Supremes have been very clear about the juvenile court, adult court distinction for decades, if not centuries.

A person's diminished mental capacity is normally used when it comes to meting out punishment, not as far as to what or how an offense is charged.

If a child is found guilty at a trial (or if she or he pleads to the charge) she or he will be adjudicated –
not convicted – of that crime. In Kansas, (or any of the 49 other states) "convicted" is used when an adult (18 or older) is found guilty of a crime. "Adjudicated" is used when a juvenile (17 or under) is found "responsible" for being DELINQUENT.

If the kid is MAP'ed, it means the prosecutor has asked the judge to treat the minor as an adult instead of a juvenile.

If the juvenile court orders it to be so, the minor can then can be treated as an adult, tried in district court (in Texas) which could eventually mean the kid (upon conviction or plea) could end up in prison with felony conviction.

MAPs in Texas are only done when it's a very serious crime, or when the juvenile has a long history of criminal activity.

If the juvenile judge agrees that the minor be bound over to district court and prosecuted as an adult, if the minor is found guilty, he or she will end up with a criminal conviction rather than a juvenile adjudication.

So, tell us more about the charge the minor faces.
Has the minor been bound over, or MAP'ed to adult court?
Are you the attorney of record?
If you are having trouble with this, you might simply request to be discharged form the case, because our goal as attorneys to best represent the interests of our clients.

 

[viper515]

I am a bit hesitant to disclose the charge on the www I suppose. I should be clear, I am a parent in this matter. I have worked through the system a bit as pro se but I have no ability to defend my son in this matter. We intend to use the court appointed atty in this matter because we cannot afford proper representation and does not seem much improvement will come of it.

I am getting the charge from a summons to appear. There is no evidence that the DA is seeking to MAP this case. However, due to the charge alone, it is considered extremely serious, even though the facts in the case are much more minor.

The laws in KS seem to indicate that upon adjudication of this charge, the juvenile would face a felony adjudication and all the consequences that come with it.

I will certainly understand any negative sentiment in trying to help my son legally, as I am not a licensed attorney. However, I have navigated several municipal and district court trials by simply following proper procedures, documentation, and statutes.

I should state as my understanding that in this charge, there are only a few differences between being adjudicated and being convicted.

 

[viper515]

I apologize but appears I should have posted this in the juvenile crime section? If so, please feel free to move. My error.

 

[army judge]

I am a bit hesitant to disclose the charge on the www I suppose. I should be clear, I am a parent in this matter. I have worked through the system a bit as pro se but I have no ability to defend my son in this matter. We intend to use the court appointed atty in this matter because we cannot afford proper representation and does not seem much improvement will come of it.

I am getting the charge from a summons to appear. There is no evidence that the DA is seeking to MAP this case. However, due to the charge alone, it is considered extremely serious, even though the facts in the case are much more minor.

The laws in KS seem to indicate that upon adjudication of this charge, the juvenile would face a felony adjudication and all the consequences that come with it.

I will certainly understand any negative sentiment in trying to help my son legally, as I am not a licensed attorney. However, I have navigated several municipal and district court trials by simply following proper procedures, documentation, and statutes.

I should state as my understanding that in this charge, there are only a few differences between being adjudicated and being convicted.

I suggest you meet with yoru child's attorney.
You have a right to do so, and I'm sure the attorney will meet with you to explain anything which puzzles you.
Any child adjudicated in juvenile court isn't the same as someone convicted in adult court.
If your kid hasn't been MAP'ed, he's simply facing a potential adjudication, not a conviction.
If your child CONFESSED (or even spoke to the police) and you weren't present, his or her words can't be used against him in a court proceeding.
Again, I urge you to discuss the matter with the child's attorney.
You're discussing it with STRANGERS on the 'net, do it in person with his or her Kansas licensed attorney.

Hint: Any confession done without your written permission is meaningless and can be kicked.
Ask the kid's attorney.
You are legally savvy, so I know you didn't allow the child to confess to these things, or did you?

 

[viper515]

LOL, I am so frustrated, words cannot explain. I made explicit instructions that my son is NOT to talk to LEOs or the DA until charges are filed. His mom thought a a fine idea to take him right to the DA, waved all rights, and he wrote down his statement! Could not get more air tight than that! Mom lives in a world where just admitting wrong doing makes it all better. The problems are just starting and now I somehow may end up financially liable for events that never even took place under my care. This would NOT have happened under my roof because I know he has a disability and use my fatherly instinct.

So I am very certain the DA has a solid case here. My only angle is to request a mental eval or submit all his med records which would prove some level of social and impulse deficit. I am hoping to have the fact that is is an 8-10yo operating in a 12yo body, we can have some of that considered.

But...my basic question is simply "does the judge have any discretion over an actual adjudication (juv conviction) if the facts in the case support the charge?" Ie, I am trying to determine if only the DA would have the power to reduce charges? In my reading, it seems clear that if the facts support the charge, the judge has no option but to find as guilty, but ultimately have discretion on sentencing? The law seems to indicate there is no way to really suppress adjudication of this felony.

In talking with his doctor, I think we are both at the same understanding of rehabilitation and preventing future problems, rather than flushing him down the drain with a life long sentence that he may never even fully understand.

In looking at mental evaluations, it seem there are only two sides here, fit to stand trial, or not? There is no doubt if you ask him if he is aware of his wrong doing, he will of course say yes. And then ask you about your watch.....lol

 

[ElleMD]

Probably not much leeway based on acting 2-4 years younger than he is, as it would still be wrong and a child of that age would be expected to know it was wrong. If he confessed and it is in writing that he did so and took a deal, there isn't much to adjudicate. Your kid did something stupid and it may have longer reaching consequences than you would like. If it was a serious enough offense, that is just the way the world works. Actions have consequences however, worries that he will be unemployed for life is a bit premature and unwarranted. There are convicted murders who go on to be employed after release. The actions of a 12 year old are unlikely to render him a burden on society for all his days.

 

[army judge]

Again, only the child's attorney has all the facts.
I urge you to discuss the matter of your child with the child's attorney.
If the child's mother WAIVED his rights, that's a problem.
But, a confession isn't a CONVICTION.
Your child may have confessed, he remains innocent until ADJUDICATED.
If the juvenile judge ultimately adjudicates the child as delinquent, that isn't a conviction, nor is it a felony conviction.
In the juvenile system, there is no distinction between misdemeanor and felony offenses.
A child adjudicated under juvenile court proceedings isn't punished, he or she is counseled and rehabilitated.

I understand your concerns.

If you want to help, get your kid into counseling by a child psychiatrist and a child psychologist.
That will illustrate your involvement to the court, but moire importantly it'll get your kid help.

Your kid won't go to prison this time, but who knows what might happen if you don't get him help.

Even if he's adjudicated to be delinquent, it won't impact him as an adult.
Why?
After the hearing has ended, you can eventually move to have it all sealed.
The only worry is of the charges involved deviant, or violent sexual acts.
That could follow your kid for decades, assuming he's convicted.
Even if, all the more reason to get him into counseling as suggested above.

One last thought: Talk to the kid's lawyer about recanting his alleged "confession".
If mother is as you suggest, it might be argued that she coerced (or used undue influence) to get the kid to blab. The kid's lawyer can help and can keep you informed.

 

[viper515]

Yes, mom "waived" our son's rights, which I don't think should stand. I am digging into the facts of how the DA got this admission and if mom was fully aware of subsequent charges. I highly doubt it. They usually act like your best friend and no big deal. Then the hit.

Thanks!

 

[army judge]

Yes, mom "waived" our son's rights, which I don't think should stand. I am digging into the facts of how the DA got this admission and if mom was fully aware of subsequent charges. I highly doubt it. They usually act like your best friend and no big deal. Then the hit.

Thanks!

I predict your son will take a hit. albeit a small hit (more like a scratch) and he'll get probation, lad might have to write an essay, get counseling, stay in school matriculating normally, and this will all go away.

But, he has yet to be adjudicated, and if the confession is tossed, he might even walk.

Have a chat with his lawyer, maybe you can visit a couple lawyers and see if you can hire a lawyer if you have no confidence in his existing lawyer.

 

[viper515]

Already has counseling, and a pile a doctors that work with him, IEP in school, etc. He is WELL managed under my roof.

This brings me to a question maybe you can answer. The incident took place at the mother's parents while solely under their care. I am beyond irritated with their lack of supervision that lead to this event! Now they are totally hands off, leaving me with the courts.

I am most concerned for myself in a possible following civil suit. I am curious about my liability as I was not even the custodian and nothing to do with it.... But I am the child's parent. The civil suit would be filed, believe it or not, by the grandfather's son.... It might seem pretty backstabbing but this whole process is stabbing me for no apparent reason. Now I have to be concerned of a huge bill.....

 

[army judge]

Already has counseling, and a pile a doctors that work with him, IEP in school, etc. He is WELL managed under my roof.

This brings me to a question maybe you can answer. The incident took place at the mother's parents while solely under their care. I am beyond irritated with their lack of supervision that lead to this event! Now they are totally hands off, leaving me with the courts.

I am most concerned for myself in a possible following civil suit. I am curious about my liability as I was not even the custodian and nothing to do with it.... But I am the child's parent. The civil suit would be filed, believe it or not, by the grandfather's son.... It might seem pretty backstabbing but this whole process is stabbing me for no apparent reason. Now I have to be concerned of a huge bill.....

My guess as to what others MIGHT do is as useless as yours.
If you are sued, you simply defend.
You'll probably need an attorney, but I'd worry more about my son's future, than some deadbeat suing me.
Take it one step at a time.
Remember when you were a boy, and you feared monsters?
Yeah, monsters aren't real.
So, stop worrying and commence doing.
If i were you, I'd start by chatting with my son's lawyer.