A purchase of a bad software for an online forum site

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total21

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Jurisdiction
California
State: California, Small Claims Court

I purchased a forum software for around $250 and I also invested close to $700 for various elements of a graphic design of a site. I also invested quite a lot of time in working on the site (substantial amount). The software was promised to come with "Free support" (indefinitely) and this promise was presented on the site as the very first thing during the purchasing process and I agreed to any futher terms and conditions after that (they were on a following separate page). So I was basically thinking, ok, if something breaks, they will fix it, and I agreed to all the terms and conditions after that.

After around a year from this time one of the features of the website / software broke and I was not able to fix it with the support team. I was talking to a regular support rep initially and I was dealing with a supervisor after that. They both stated that this is not something they can fix and that they will not be able to fix the site. I was also given wrong and misleading info after a certain amount of time, like for example that the reason for the problem was this but this was not true or correct and I was also asked to install something like A or B and when I installed A, they said, no, it was suppose to be A. After a couple of months like that I filled a lawsuit (California, small claims court).

I was granted a permission to appear by a written declaration only (no CourtCall needed) and I need to present the final paperwork to the Judge and the Defendant in about one month's time.

I am thinking that it would be the best to present the laws that apply to my particular situation and laws that prove that in fact the money that I spent should be returned to me. I am not sure where to find it and how to approach this case in order to win. What laws could be applicable, what area of the law I would be looking at and is it possible to find it on the Internet, and where could I be directed to get more help (only free help is applicable, as I am not able to pay for that, I can call around within the USA). The amount that I am trying to recover is around $950, only what I spent, no additional money for my time or anything like that.
 
First, even if successful, I doubt you would get more than the value of the software. Before proceeding you might want to decide if this is worth it for $250. You won't get a penny for your time and other investments.

You need to review any written warranty or guarantee of service and determine exactly what was promised and what the company failed to do. The law you ask about is essentially a breach of contract, so you would have to show they didn't do something they were supposed to.

I'm not sure the promise of free support means that they will be able to fix your problem to your satisfaction. It seems they did provide support but were unsuccessful.

There could be many reasons software doesn't work, and many of those reasons are beyond the control of the developer. The problem could be due to the operating system or other conflicting software, hardware configurations, user errors, viruses, etc. Are you going to be able to prove the problem is something that is their responsibility?

You might be better off to eat the loss on the software and choose a new one.
 
@mightymoose - Thanks for the answer, it is along the lines of what I was trying to find. Some keywords that I could start with lets say. I wont be explaining the situation to you as this is not the point here, but basically the "breach of contract" and try to prove that it was not my fault and it was their fault. I've been looking around the area of Consumer Law / Consumer Protection or maybe something like Civil Rights Violation (rights guaranteed by the Constitution, but this may not be very good).

These are description from two separate forum sites:

Consumer Law - Laws and regulations designed to protect individuals in their acquisitions of goods and services, and transactions with businesses and other entities

Consumer Law - Consumer law, tips and information, including shopping, defective merchandise and warranties, retailers and travel

I would kind of need a framework or keywords from somebody who is familiar with that and I can do the further work by myself (I can devote like 5 working days for it and so on, I want to do it good, and if I do it good and professionally, I am sure that I can win). It is around $930 so this would be like $2500 where I live, lets say (EU country). So I am kind of trying to get that $2500 on my bank account, which would be very good.
 
Well again, it seems you are likely aiming too high. In a best case scenario you would likely only get the value of the software.

Your first task should be to thoroughly review any graduate/warranty offered with the software and determine specifically what the company failed to do. Don't even worry about law yet. Just keep it simple and identify what they failed to do and where the gaurantee was made to you.

In small claims you really don't need to know a lot about the law and aren't expected to. It's more about being able to explain your argument clearly.

Just curious... Have you asked for a refund or any other compensation? If not, try.
 
I asked for the $250 and I said that we could leave it at that, but the request was ignored. I will be looking into this further as the time goes by. I am working on this now, as the main task.
 
You're overthinking this. Small claims court is informal. All the judge wants to know is what your contract said and what the seller didn't do that the contract said he was supposed to do. The judge does not want to see pages and pages of useless legalese, cases and statutes.

If you win at all, you'll likely only be entitled to a refund of your purchase price as I can almost guarantee that your warranty contract excludes consequential damages.

By the way "free support" means nothing.

What does the warranty specifically say about defects?
 
total21 said:
@mightymoose - Thanks for the answer, it is along the lines of what I was trying to find. Some keywords that I could start with lets say. I wont be explaining the situation to you as this is not the point here, but basically the "breach of contract" and try to prove that it was not my fault and it was their fault. I've been looking around the area of Consumer Law / Consumer Protection or maybe something like Civil Rights Violation (rights guaranteed by the Constitution, but this may not be very good).

These are description from two separate forum sites:

Consumer Law - Laws and regulations designed to protect individuals in their acquisitions of goods and services, and transactions with businesses and other entities

Consumer Law - Consumer law, tips and information, including shopping, defective merchandise and warranties, retailers and travel

I would kind of need a framework or keywords from somebody who is familiar with that and I can do the further work by myself (I can devote like 5 working days for it and so on, I want to do it good, and if I do it good and professionally, I am sure that I can win). It is around $930 so this would be like $2500 where I live, lets say (EU country). So I am kind of trying to get that $2500 on my bank account, which would be very good.
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You live in Poland.

You'll need an airline ticket from Poland to CA, hotel, meals, car rental, several trips, small claims won't work, buddy.

It's financially irresponsible even for a lousy $2,500, assuming you'd prevail, which is very doubtful.

Try suing the company in your country.

Not saying that'll work either, but it surely will be CHEAPER, even if you lose.
 
@adjusterjack - My line of thinking here is that the promise of Free Support came first and that I agreed to any further terms and conditions after that, on a further page. I was thinking, ok, if there will be problems they will fix it, so I decided to agree. The terms in fact exclude all the additional things.

I will add that I've spent quite a lot of time for dealing with this and I am very familiar with the small claims process and this case. I am not just starting, considering filing a case or anything like that. I've already sent out like 10 or so letters related to that (to the court and to the defendant).

Based on how things are now, it seems like it would be good to have the applicable laws that are related to the case and mention that, based that final letter on something like this.

@army judge - you are not correct. I don't need to be present in the USA to file the case and be a side of a case. CourtCall.com or appearing by a written declaration only are two options that I have (the second one is not very common and easily accessible but it is obtainable as well). Whether this is worth it, I am not sure, but this is how the things went. It was not a situation where I could just leave it and let it go. If I wont win this one it wont be over too. I may file another case, or complain to some government organizations about them. I got the software, it was suppose to be with free support, and they plainly told me that they wont fix it and started giving me wrong info and wasting my time (on purpose, for example, I was told install A or B and we will continue working on this, if you wont do that, we cant continue, I installed A, it took quite a lot of work, and the supervisor told me, I never told you to install A, you were suppose to install the B... And this was like 2 months after starting the support ticket with them).

It is not maybe this or maybe that situation, it is clear that they are not suppose to be doing what they did and that they should have refunded the money to me.

But like I said, I need to be like a lawyer here, and prepare a paperwork. It is not a matter of estimating if I can win or not, whatever the result may be, I need to present the best possible paperwork. This is what is needed here. I am not familiar with that. I guess Civil Law, Consumer Protection, things like this. I am not even sure if this is different for every US State, and where I would be looking for it on the Internet. Like I said, I would need some kind of "framework", "keywords" and I could go from there by myself. I can read, I can write, I can make it very professional and prepare it like a lawyer would, lets say, make an impression of that... I am more familiar with this case, so I know what I am talking about. I've been exchanging correspondence with the lawyer representing the Defendand and the Judge.
 
Believe what you want to believe but what you are asking for is not something anybody here (or on any other forum where you have posted) is going to give you.

The promise of unlimited support is meaningless if you subsequently agreed to the terms of service and warranty contract when you placed your order.

And while you say you are able to "read, write, make it professional, and prepare it like a lawyer" you appear to incapable of answering a simple question:

What does the warranty and/or terms of service say about product defect?

If you can't answer that simple question here, you might as well give up your lawsuit because you've lost before you start.
 
Once again, there could have been conflicts with the OS of the server, or patching requirements that were not done, or virii/malware, or any a number of things as to why the software stopped working.

Who was running the hosting server? You or the software company or a third party?

These questions should lead you to the conclusion to eat the loss and go on with your life.
 
People mention warranty, contract, but there does not seem to be anything like this. The only two documents like these are:

1) vBulletin License Agreement (I was reading this one several times, close to 8 months ago). The best idea that I was able to come up with is to state that the promise of free support was first and that I agreed to the further Terms and Conditions, based on that.

2) vBulletin Terms and Condidtions - This seems to be related to the their website and not to the software that I bought, but there is some other things in the mix.
 
If you can't find documentation that indicates they are obligated to do the things you are demanding then you have nowhere to go with this.
 
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