Alcohol & Drugs: MIP, MIC, Intoxication 14 yr old possession of alcohol

[whatnext49]

I am mom. Dropped daughter last night at Halloween party. Turned around, came home - took 15 minutes. Received text from daughter that police came and were searching the house. Went to get her. Police cited all 27 they caught with 25562(a) Possession of Alcohol by Minor. There was no parent in the house. She had nothing to drink, no cup in hand - no breathalizer or anything done. All received tickets to appear. What is my situation? Do I obtain legal counsel? Can she be guilty by being there?

 

[CdwJava]

Yes, she can be found guilty for being there. Possession requires only knowledge and constructive control (i.e. she saw the alcohol and had the ability to partake, pick up, or manipulate the alcohol at the party).

I believe I posted this reply to you on another site as well, but as the father of two teen boys, I regularly ask to meet the parent(s) who will be monitoring the party, and take a look around inside before I leave my child. If I feel at all uncomfortable, he doesn't go. Even though I trust my children, I do not always trust the environment they might be in. Peer pressure and even spiked drinks or smokes can happen ... you may think you know YOUR child, but you do not know everyone who will be there.

- Carl

 

[whatnext49]

Thank you - yes, I do believe I heard from you on another site. I am still trying to gather information. Your definition of constructive possession differs form others I haver in that yours does not state that the intent to control it must be there. Intent is key here. My daughter had no intention of participating just like a person in a bank at the time of a robbery has no intent to participate. Are they guilty for being there while the crime is committed? She is cited for possession in a public place. The code does not say present with open alcohol in a private home, but possessing in a public place. I believe those are different issues. I take issue with blanket citations for all those present. Distinguish between those in violation of something and those not.

 

[CdwJava]

Pursuant to the state's Jury Instructions, the state must show the defendant was under 21 AND unlawfully possessed an alcoholic beverage in a place open to the public (and if the party was generally open, or she was outside, then this element would be met).

Was there someone at the door charging admission? Checking ID? Requesting an invitation? If anyone can just wander inside, it is open to the public. Of course, she is free to argue otherwise ... and I suspect the friends will just love to be thrown down like that!

The instructions further define that two or more persons may possess something at the same time, and that a person does not have to actually hold or touch something to
possess it. "It is enough if the person has (control over it/ [or] the right to control it), either personally or through another person."

So, it is not difficult to infer that she was in possession. You will also note that specific intent is not an element of the section, ergo we can assume that "general intent" was required, and if she was knowingly in a place where alcohol was readily available, then she was knowingly in possession. There is no element that requires intent to consume.

The question now becomes, 'How much do you wish to spend for an attorney' to defend a case that holds a $250 max. fine and 24 to 32 hours of community service, and is usually resolved via deferral.

- Carl

 

[whatnext49]

I understand your points. However, my information so far is that it is more serious than just the fine, service and deferral. Is it true that her drivers license will be withheld? If she is ever, until the age of 21, found in the "presence" of alcohol again, she will go to jail? Those are the major concerns driving me.

 

[CdwJava]

Pursuant to CVC 13202.5 the court "shall" withhold the license for 1 year. However, the court may then issue a restricted license allowing for travel to and from school and work. In my experience, this frequently happens in first offense situations.

Most counties have programs that allow minors under 18 to take an informal deferral process to keep this off their record ... if she is over 18 then deferral may not be an option.

And I have never heard of ANYTHING like this going to jail if in the presence of alcohol ... I'd be curious to know where you heard that one? Perhaps someone was referring to conditions of formal probation (if it were to to that far, and I doubt it).

- Carl

 

[whatnext49]

I read that on one of these sites, frankly I am in information overload. She is only 14 - 15 this weekend. There are 27 kids involved here. The citation says to appear "on or before" xx date. Is it better or worse to go in a group? Make any difference to wait or go now?

 

[CdwJava]

I read that on one of these sites, frankly I am in information overload.

Of course ... there's a lot of info and MIS-info out there.

A lot will depend on how your county handles such things - and this can be varied. In my county she would get diversion and there would be no record - this would be the case in a number of others as well. If it DOES go to court, then it is possible she will pay the fine, do the community service, and get counseling. She would also have to deal with the license suspension (which could mean a one year delay in obtaining her license).

Only if she were to get probation with conditions that included to remain away from all alcohol would there even be a slight chance of going to juvenile hall for being around alcohol. In my experience, I cannot see that happening. If she gets probation at all, she will likely have informal probation (no probation officer, but has to stay out of trouble) and may be subject to search and test for alcohol.

She is only 14 - 15 this weekend. There are 27 kids involved here. The citation says to appear "on or before" xx date. Is it better or worse to go in a group? Make any difference to wait or go now?

Is the appearance in to Juvenile Court, or Traffic Court?

Often, the court wants to look at the parent's involvement - and future involvement. In other words, how are YOU going to address the issue? It has been my experience that if a parent steps up and - if asked - offers a plan on how to prevent this from happening again, the court will act very leniently. I suggested a couple of ideas that you might consider for any future social events that your child attends. Your daughter is the same age as my oldest son, and I can tell you that my plan has thus far worked. My son has reported that because of the inquiry and inspection insisted upon by my wife and I, he has been asked not to attend only one party ... when he told me the name of the person hosting the party, I could understand why - alcohol and drugs were almost certainly going to be present. if the party is on the up and up, and properly supervised by RESPONSIBLE adults, then they will not have a problem with my talking to the hosts and taking a quick look inside. If they DO have a problem, then I believe they have something to hide and I would not want my child there.

ANY way ... appearing independently might make you stand out. It might benefit you to appear alone so as to stand out for the better. You might consider contacting Juvenile Probation and asking to speak to someone who might be handling this matter (assuming it is going through Juvenile probation as most such matters do). You might be able to arrange diversion that way.

And, it might benefit you to at least get a free consultation with an attorney. Whether it will be worth spending $1,500 to go to trial on the matter is up to you ... but, an attorney might be able to give direction for pre-trial diversion that your locale will support.

Good luck.

- Carl

 

[whatnext49]

I believe she is in Juvenile Court. The ticket says "Formal Court", but I looked up the address and cross-referenced it to LA County Juvenile Court. I will contact Juvenile Probation and see if they can direct me. So far the lawyers are very scary and agressive about this. Your take is less so. I raised my elder daughter on go ahead and be there, but you are responsible for your actions. I was not aware that being in the house put you in this position. It is more agressive that I understood. Given the risk, I will modify my parameters for what is acceptable. Yes, my older daughter did attend, socialize, have fun and not partake, but I see that is no longer the yardstick by which things are measured.

 

[CdwJava]

Of course the lawyers are making hay out of it ... they can use the work. It is likely easy money for what is probably a pro forma end result. But, you are not in my county and these attorneys might know details about the system in your county that I do not, so you will have to weigh all the information for yourself. But, certainly see if you can speak to someone at Juvenile Probation that might be handling the issue.

And while you and I may trust our children to make the right decision when all things are equal, we cannot control the actions of others. Aside from peer pressure (which is much greater than we might want to think it is) we have to contend with the possibility of our children being assaulted by their drunken or high peers, having their sodas (or cigarettes) spiked with alcohol or drugs, getting a lift to the corner store for chips with a kid who is high or drunk and might do something else stupid (theft, assault, vandalism), etc. Otherwise good kids can easily get wrapped up in bad news at such a party. And, as a parent, I operate under the theory: "Trust, but verify." If my children have to use me and my wife as an excuse not to do something, good be it! I'll be the Adam Henry (that's shorthand for A** H***) if it helps to save them from themselves or others.

- carl