Harassment, Stalking, Misconduct Wouldn't you call this threats?

[Jenwantanswer]

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[army judge]

Background -We've had a parking issues in the neighborhood (not alot of parking spaces). Some neighbors block street parking with 1 vehicle taking 2 spots. Has become an issue over the years. Recently (about 2-3 months ago) we moved a small pop up camper into a parking spot on public street after clearing it was ok with police dept. Neighbor approached my husband a couple weeks ago saying we need to move it because his wife can't see backing out of driveway. Husband explained nothing we can do and we had cleared it with police already and it was legal. Note that a license plate on vehicle was the one we had on when we bought it and we had transfered that into our name - police were called about 2 months ago of abandoned camper (mine) and they notified me of this problem and we got a new tag/registration but wasn't on at time of this incident yet since we just received the new registration recently)
What happened - This past Saturday the neighbor came over to my home. Knocked on door, my husband wasn't home at time. Neighbor says to be 'listen i know you have problem with neighbor but I need you to move the camper' i said 'i've already cleared the vehicle with police.' he said i need you to move it' i said ' i am not moving it'. Neighbor started getting very angry and called me a f'n 'b' and said 'you NEED to move it or I will get you' 'i will have it towed' and repeated the f'n 'b' remarks several times. At this time he was spitting from his mouth so much, the saliva was pouring out of his mouth (GROSS).
I told him I was going to call police -he said 'go ahead - i know people, i'll call them too.'

I called, police came (3 officers). They spoke to him and his wife for approx. 15 min. before even coming to my door. When officer came, I was obviouslly very upset at what happened. He told me that he just found out different that camper should be inspected (shouldn't be b/c it's under 3000 lbs) and that I should 'just move it', that the neighbor was just upset about his wife not being able to back out of driveway safely saying my camper was blocking view of street, and the 'I'm going to get you' and 'i will have it towed' were not considered threats. To be a threat, he'd need to be waving a baseball bat or a gun/knife at me.
I disagree with this. I told officer so. Told officer I was scared of neighbor threat. Nothing done.
Officer ended conversation saying my husband shouldn't go there (to neighbors or he'd be in trouble when he returned) and that he'd tell my neighbor not to come on my property.
My husband called officer when he got home and call was returned on Sunday - officer again saying it was not a threat and I am lucky he didn't give me a ticket for not having the new plate on already and still having old on one.

NOW - I am very upset by this. I was alone with a child in my home when this happened who witnessed this mans violence and profanity and threats and is now very scarred too. I don't know what to do.
Someone - HELP!

Well, let's take a look at what is illegal about making threats in PA.

The crime of making terroristic threats applies if you are accused of threatening to:

1. commit any crime of violence with intent to terrorize another;
2. cause evacuation of a building, place of assembly, or facility of public transportation; or
3. otherwise cause serious public inconvenience, or cause terror or serious public inconvenience with reckless disregard of the risk of causing such terror or inconvenience.


As usual, the police officers were correct.
Most police officers aren't reluctant to enforce the law.
Most police officers only enforce the law, and not an illegal interpretation of the law.

Your camper is violating some local ordinance about size (GVW).
You should move it to a storage facility and not a residential neighborhood.
Your interpretation or understanding of the law is way off base.

No one likes to admit it when they're wrong, but you're wrong.
Fix this, forget what the rude neighbor said or did.
He didn't break the law.
What he said was rude, but did not amount to a "terroristic threat", as defined in the statute.
Fix the root of the problem, store the camper properly!

 

[Jenwantanswer]

actually, I am not violating the law. The camper is under 3000 lbs. Our local juridiction says over 3000 lbs. If you missed it, I had consulted with the police before placing my small popup camper there.

 

[army judge]

actually, I am not violating the law. The camper is under 3000 lbs. Our local juridiction says over 3000 lbs. If you missed it, I had consulted with the police before placing my vehicle there.

Until you move the camper, you'll continue to have difficulties.

You don't seem all that scared and scarred today.

All I did was try and offer you some legal advice, tempered with common sense.

Since you dismiss it, I have no problem with what you do.

You don't reside in my neighborhood.

So, keep pushing it.

You won't like how this movie ends!

But, keep pushing.

Bottom line, the neighbor didn't break the law.

 

[Jenwantanswer]

How can you say I am not affected or not scared by this? I think you are not accurate on what you are stating. Please let me know where you got the info on I am violating local law please. I'd like to look it up. You are right - no one wants to admit when they are wrong, BUT if I am, I will move it. I may not like it - but if it is illegal, I will move it.

Until you move the camper, you'll continue to have difficulties.

You don't seem all that scared and scarred today.

All I did was try and offer you some legal advice, tempered with common sense.

Since you dismiss it, I have no problem with what you do.

You don't reside in my neighborhood.

So, keep pushing it.

You won't like how this movie ends!

But, keep pushing.

Bottom line, the neighbor didn't break the law.

 

[army judge]

How can you say I am not affected or not scared by this? I think you are not accurate on what you are stating. Please let me know where you got the info on I am violating local law please. I'd like to look it up. You are right - no one wants to admit when they are wrong, BUT if I am, I will move it. I may not like it - but if it is illegal, I will move it.

It isn't always about the law.

The law can't idiot proof the world.

People got along before there were laws.

This is about courtesy.

It is about common sense!

The guy's wife can't see to back out of her driveway.

At least that is what she says.

You say it is legal, so let's accept that as fact.

How do you propose to make it safe for the neighbor's wife to back out of her driveway?

What if she was backing out and hit your child, cat, dog, husband, a stranger, or even you?

Is this worth someone's life?

It isn't always about being right.

Sometimes we need to be kind and considerate, even when others aren't.

 

[Jenwantanswer]

If I thought this was a safety issue, I would agree. I think they just don't want my camper there. If she feels she can't safely back up onto the street then -- She could back in, park one of their trucks in the driveway and park her car on the road - those would both reduce the issue on her end.

This isn't about trying to hurt someones feelings or produce a safety issue.
Sometimes, things can't be done to make everyone happy. If I move it, they are happy but I am left with nowhere to put my camper, which makes me unhappy. I don't see a winner in either case.

 

[army judge]

If I thought this was a safety issue, I would agree. I think they just don't want my camper there. If she feels she can't safely back up onto the street then -- She could back in, park one of their trucks in the driveway and park her car on the road - those would both reduce the issue on her end.

This isn't about trying to hurt someones feelings or produce a safety issue.
Sometimes, things can't be done to make everyone happy. If I move it, they are happy but I am left with nowhere to put my camper, which makes me unhappy. I don't see a winner in either case.

As I said, you won't like the ending of this movie.

I'm just an old country lawyer.

I've been doing this 40 years.

You maintain that attitude, and the results will be nasty.

I've seen what happens in cases like this.

You saw part of it a few hours ago.

If no one bends, you all will be unhappy.

I don't live my life in this manner.

There are no fights or civil disturbances in my neighborhood.

Good luck to all of you!

 

[cbg]

Given that my neighbors just put up a privacy fence that blocks the view of any car trying to turn out of my street onto a numbered state highway, my sympathies are all with your neighbor.

Was it legal for them to put up a fence? Sure it was. That doesn't mean that safety can be ignored.

I'm sure they didn't think there was a safety factor when they put the fence up. But they're not thinking (or your not thinking) that there is a safety factor does not mean there isn't one.

Nothing is going to change the fact that I cannot see oncoming cars until they are less than three car lengths away; that I have only narrowly avoided close to a dozen accidents since the fence went up; that it is only a matter of time before there is a serious accident there; and that under my state's laws I will be the one held at fault (and MY insurance that goes up) despite the fact that I had no way of seeing the car until it was practically on top of me.

It's not all about you, sweetheart. Your right to park where you do, legal or not, does not trump other people's right to be safe. Have some consideration for other people, why don't you?

 

[CdwJava]

Okay, back to the direct issue of the threats ...

Were you attacked with the intent to terrorize you? Since you make no mention of being battered, the answer to that is "no."

Did his comments compel you to leave the property in fear for your safety? Since you do not claim that you fled for your safety, then the answer to that would seem to be "no"

That leaves you only with the question of whether or not his words caused a "serious public inconvenience" or caused terror with "reckless disregard" of the risk caused by his comment. Unless you were left in a state of abject fear, believing he was going to come and harm you or yours presently as a result of the threats, it will generally not be charged as a crime. His statement that he is going "to get" you is ambiguous and not clearly a threat to do physical harm.

I don't know if PA (and I assume that is your state) allows for civil harassment protective orders, perhaps you should obtain one.

 

[mightymoose]

The threats made did not amount to a criminal threat, but would have been sufficient enough for the OP to request a restraining order against the neighbor. It would then be easier for the police to take action enforcing the restraining order than to determine what may or may not have been said and whether a credible threat was made.

A restraining order against the neighbor is probably the best option.

As for the vehicle, I am willing to bet that there is a local law/ordinance that requires vehicles parked on the street to be moved periodically... usually 72 hours. The registration of the vehicle and the legality of parking it on the street are one thing... but the length of time that the vehicle is allowed to stand on the street is another issue. It is quite possible that it could start accumulating parking citations and become towable if it remains on the street.

It is best to park the vehicle somewhere on private property, in accordance with local ordinances (it may have to be covered or inside a building), or to park it at a storage facility.

 

[BayState]

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What is the point of deleting your first post? It has been quoted.

 

[army judge]

What is the point of deleting your first post? It has been quoted.

That is why I usually quote it.

One can then follow the rabbit's tracks!!!