VASCAR in PA, wrong location

[scott geesey]

Jurisdiction

Pennsylvania

I have a vascar ticket. When you go to the location on the ticket, there are no lines on the road, which is how PA uses vascar. Can I dismiss.

He put W instead of E...how am I to know that. 2. Where there were lines, they were very faded. I saw him later adding bright yellow tape to the lines.

 

[Highwayman]

He put W instead of E...how am I to know that.

Know what?

2. Where there were lines, they were very faded. I saw him later adding bright yellow tape to the lines.

First you said there were no lines, now you say they were faded. Which is it?

 

[adjusterjack]

I saw him later adding bright yellow tape to the lines.

Did you photograph him doing that?

Everybody has cell phones with cameras in them these days.

 

[scott geesey]

Know what?



First you said there were no lines, now you say they were faded. Which is it?

So the ticket says we were on the eastside of Herr Ave. We were on the west side. The east side has no lines and the west does. I dae hom lateradding yellow tape.

I think it is moot. I went to the spot the ticket says and took pic. No lines

 

[adjusterjack]

You might be able to cast doubt on the officer's testimony. No guarantees.

 

[mightymoose]

VASCAR doesn't necessarily require the lines anyway. All that is required is a known distance between two points.

Anyway, is it possible that the E/W indicated on the citation is not regarding directly of travel but rather the name of the road?

For example, East Main St vs eastbound on Main St.

I suspect the potential discrepancy will be easily explained and won't be the silver bullet that kills the citation.

 

[scott geesey]

VASCAR doesn't necessarily require the lines anyway. All that is required is a known distance between two points.

Anyway, is it possible that the E/W indicated on the citation is not regarding directly of travel but rather the name of the road?

For example, East Main St vs eastbound on Main St.

I suspect the potential discrepancy will be easily explained and won't be the silver bullet that kills the citation.

Ok. No one seems to be getting it.

 

[army judge]

Ok. No one seems to be getting it.

Sorry, you're not getting it.

Traffic court is a revenue stream for local government.

If 100 people walk into a traffic court and contest a citation, fewer than 5 walk out with a NOT guilty verdict.

That leaves more than 95 paying hefty fines, fees, and court costs; in addition to receiving a point sanction and higher automobile insurance rates.

In some states a one can request "deferred disposition" which if granted, is 100% effective in eliminating any sanctions and fees/fines.

In some states one can request to take an online driving class, upon completion the citation is dismissed, plus your insurance carrier will often give you an additional discount for completing the class.

I've researched PA, and it appears your state offers two options: pay the citation or contest the citation, which will end up with more than 95% of those cited paying the ticket anyway (after wasting a day in court).

However, these sites claim a defensive driving course is possible in some cases:

Pennsylvania Traffic School Defensive Driving Online

Pennsylvania Traffic School Online and Defensive Driving Online Classes - Select your county

Pennsylvania Defensive Driving Traffic School Online

Pennsylvania Defensive Driving & Traffic School | DMV.ORG



That leaves you with one other option, hire a lawyer who specializes in defending drivers. Usually those lawyers have can ease the pain from the citation, but your wallet will sting because the lawyer gets a hefty fee for working legal magic.

 

[zddoodah]

Can I dismiss.

Can you dismiss what? You obviously cannot dismiss your own ticket, and I'm guessing it's unlikely you'll talk anyone into dismissing the ticket before trial. Whether you can beat this ticket in a trial is impossible for anyone here to assess.

He put W instead of E...how am I to know that. 2.

Huh?

Where there were lines, they were very faded. I saw him later adding bright yellow tape to the lines.

Cool...so what?

So the ticket says we were on the eastside of Herr Ave. We were on the west side. The east side has no lines and the west does. I dae hom lateradding yellow tape.

I think it is moot. I went to the spot the ticket says and took pic. No lines

What difference does it make which side of the street the lines were on? And you still haven't rectified the conflict between "no lines" and "faded lines."

Ok. No one seems to be getting it.

If we aren't "getting it," it's because you're not explaining it clearly. If you take it to court, will you be able to do any better?

It sounds to me like you don't really dispute that you were speeding and, instead, are trying to beat the ticket on some sort of technicality. Probably better off trying to deal with the ticket by taking traffic school.

 

[scott geesey]

Know what?



First you said there were no lines, now you say they were faded. Which is it?

Let's make it simple. I have a ticket that says he has me speeding between 2 lines on the road, 300 ft. West of Herr Ave.

I go to court with pictures of the road 300' West of Herr Ave. No lines.

Can he just say "oh well I meant 300' EAST of Herr Ave., not West." And the judge would say "OK yes you can change that location."

How, in my defense would I know to go East. I am going off the ticket. My pictures are taken off the ticket. I was stopped way past both locations.

 

[Highwayman]

I was stopped way past both locations.

Where you were stopped is totally irrelevant.

 

[zddoodah]

I go to court with pictures of the road 300' West of Herr Ave. No lines.

Can he just say "oh well I meant 300' EAST of Herr Ave., not West." And the judge would say "OK yes you can change that location."

Yes, the cop could say that, and the court may be fine with that.

How, in my defense would I know to go East. I am going off the ticket. My pictures are taken off the ticket. I was stopped way past both locations.

You're aware of the issue, so what difference does it make?

And again, it sounds to me like you don't really dispute that you were speeding and, instead, are trying to beat the ticket on some sort of technicality. Probably better off trying to deal with the ticket by taking traffic school.

 

[mightymoose]

I go to court with pictures of the road 300' West of Herr Ave. No lines.

The lines may not even be required. All that is needed is a known distance between any two points.

Can he just say "oh well I meant 300' EAST of Herr Ave., not West." And the judge would say "OK yes you can change that location."

Yes. It happens all the time. The officer's testimony is the evidence against you, not the words on the citation.

How, in my defense would I know to go East. I am going off the ticket. My pictures are taken off the ticket. I was stopped way past both locations.

Be prepared with pictures of both. This doesn't sound like an argument that will get you anywhere though.

 

[scott geesey]

The lines may not even be required. All that is needed is a known distance between any two points.



Yes. It happens all the time. The officer's testimony is the evidence against you, not the words on the citation.



Be prepared with pictures of both. This doesn't sound like an argument that will get you anywhere though.

So Rule 109 of the Pa Code "Defects in Form, Content or Procedure", would not apply when my defense relies on a location of 2 points noted on the ticket.

That would not be "prejudicial to my defense??"

I would think it would be very prejudicial. Since all my measurements, pictures, testimony will be of and about 320 ft West of Herr Ave.; the wrong location.

Cases have been dismissed under 109, for the wrong date on a citation. Claiming they could not call a witness to testify about the date on the ticket.

Now PA does allow a citation to be amended ONLY if it is not prejudicial to the defendants defense. In this case, I think I win pretty hands down.

 

[mightymoose]

Try your best. You will find out when the time comes.
Success with such attempts are not often successful.

 

[scott geesey]

Try your best. You will find out when the time comes.
Success with such attempts are not often successful.[/QUOTE
I would agree with radar, or some other speed tracking that does not rely on the distance of 2 fixed points on the road.

"Where are these 2 points on the road, Judge, so that I can make a defense for my case? Maybe measure the distance?"

"That doesn't matter, you are not allowed to look at the 2 points and measure them. The fact we misled you on the area does not constitute prejudice."

 

[mightymoose]

It seems to me you would more likely be ordered to return at a later date after having opportunity to review the correct information, at which time you would be found guilty anyway.
The smart way out of this is to pay the fine and request traffic school if it is an option. It may not be an option later.

VASCAR speeds are just as reliable as radar or lidar. VASCAR is based on simple math with no technological gizmos.