Unsure if their debt validation is enough

[gumbii2662]

I have an old credit card debt that was charged off by the original company several years ago and has since been sold off to several agencies. The most recent one claims to be a law firm representing a collection agency. My first contact with them was by phone, when they threatened to take me to court if I didn't make arrangements with them that day. Against my better judgment I agreed to pay $50 that day and $50 the next month; then they would contact me in 2 months to make further arrangements. I am kicking myself for making the payment now because I realized that the debt was past the statute of limitations in my state (Colorado) but now that I've made that payment the clock stats at zero again... Anyway, the day after I made that first payment, I got my first letter of correspondence in the mail with them, telling me I had 30 days to request debt validation. I decided to exercise that right, and sent them certified mail with return receipt. Today (almost a month later), I got their "validation". The letter said that I should find enclosed "an affidavit of indebtedness from USBank (the original creditor), as well as 4 pages from my original cardholder's agreement". The four pages include what rates would be charged and the fact that I would be obliged to pay any attorney fees. But there WAS NO AFFIDAVIT from USBank, only the 4 pages (out of a 40+ page agreement) of the cardholder's agreement. They also included in the letter the amount they claim I owe and the original creditor's address.
However, part of my validation letter to them requested that they provide proof of their right to collect debt in my state. That is not in the letter. Nor is there any proof that they are own the debt or are authorized to collect on behalf of anyone.
I may be very wrong, but it seems to me that what they have provided me with is insufficient validation. Since I am not trained and experienced in these matters though, I thought I'd ask here in hopes that someone can give me some advice as to whether or not these people have violated Debt Collection laws or if there's something else I need to do, or can do to stop this debt collection. If that means letting them take me to court and showing the judge the collectors' violations, then please let me know.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer me.

 

[mightymoose]

The more you communicate with them the more you are in their crosshairs. If you don't want to pay the debt then make yourself scarce and don't worry about it until they serve you legal papers.
You are right though... the clock started over with that $50.

 

[jharris352]

I personally would send them $50 in the form of a check with an attached letter stating that the payment of Check # xxxx for $50 is my settlement offer to settle the debt to a zero balance. On the back of the check write, endorsing and cashing this check constitutes acceptance of the full and fair settlement offer included in the letter.

Most companies separate the letter and the check as it comes in the door. The check is deposited and the letter goes in a stack. Before it is read the check is deposited and your cancelled check is proof of a debt settled in full.

Score!

 

[stop3rdpartycol]

The law they are trying to collect on is "CONTRACT" law,,which requires them to have "the original signed contract", and the "deeds of transfer", indicating your account specifically with the "deeds of transfer", and a copy or original of your last statement, indicating your last payment on the account, and the "charge Off" amount. Which the original bank "wrote Off" its books.

PROVING THAT THEY NOW OWN THE DEBT LEGALLY!!

 

[stop3rdpartycol]

They never have any of this information, what they present to the court is a hodge podge of information, a pasted piece from an excell spredsheet with your name, address ect, usually 2 pages sideways, "certifications" which are assembled by their own staff on their own computer systems, including usually an amount you owe which they assembled from their own computer system. From this "Budle" they bought for pennies on the dollar!!

The problem is unless you "ANSWER THE LAWSUIT" Requiring you to file an answer to the suit, contesting the "CONTRACT CASE" Pay the $15.00 fee to the court, and Show up on the Date of the court hearing and contest the case by demanding that they supply the original contract, deeds of transfer, and last payment statement,"
indicating your account "specifically" and the "charge Off" amount...

They will request a default judgement from the Judge..and he will grant it!

 

[gumbii2662]

The law they are trying to collect on is "CONTRACT" law,,which requires them to have "the original signed contract", and the "deeds of transfer", indicating your account specifically with the "deeds of transfer", and a copy or original of your last statement, indicating your last payment on the account, and the "charge Off" amount. Which the original bank "wrote Off" its books.

PROVING THAT THEY NOW OWN THE DEBT LEGALLY!!

Since they didn't send anything except two pages of my "contract", does this mean they did not fully verify the debt? They didn't send anything stating that they have a legal right to collect the debt, nor did they send a breakdown of why I owe what they say I owe. They didn't send an "affidavit of debt" by the company. All they sent were two pages of a contract.

 

[stop3rdpartycol]

SO BASICALLY THEY SENT YOU "NOTHING"
PROVING THEY OWN THE DEBT.

YOU OWE THEM NOTHING!!

DONOT SENT THEM ANY MORE MONEY!!

IF YOU SENT THEM A "CHECK" FROM YOUR CURRENT BANK ACCOUNT
(The $50 you already paid them)

CLOSE THAT ACCOUNT OUT!! NOW!! AND OPEN ANOTHER IN ANOTHER BANK,
IF and when they sue you and seek a default judgement they already have your bank account info to grab all monies in that account!!

Your next step is another letter,
contact us at stopthirdpartydebtcollectors at yahoo.com

 

[stop3rdpartycol]

SO BASICALLY THEY SENT YOU "NOTHING"
PROVING THEY OWN THE DEBT.

YOU OWE THEM NOTHING!!

DONOT SENT THEM ANY MORE MONEY!!

IF YOU SENT THEM A "CHECK" FROM YOUR CURRENT BANK ACCOUNT
(The $50 you already paid them)

CLOSE THAT ACCOUNT OUT!! NOW!! AND OPEN ANOTHER IN ANOTHER BANK,
IF and when they sue you and seek a default judgement they already have your bank account info to grab all monies in that account!!

Your next step is another letter,

 

[gumbii2662]

I appreciate your answers, thank you for your advice! As far as the bank account that I paid them from, it's in my husband's name only- not a joint account, and the credit card was in MY name only, not joint. So legally, they wouldn't be allowed to garnish from his account, right?

 

[mightymoose]

Yes, they can garnish your spouse's wages and collect from his account. What's his is yours and what's yours is his.

 

[stop3rdpartycol]

I appreciate your answers, thank you for your advice! As far as the bank account that I paid them from, it's in my husband's name only- not a joint account, and the credit card was in MY name only, not joint. So legally, they wouldn't be allowed to garnish from his account, right?

WRONG!!
"Legally" is a term TOTALLY IGNORED BY 3RD PARTY DEBT COLLECTORS!!

IF they did things "LEGALLY" they wouldn't be filing all these massive lawsuits
with out the proper documents to secure judgments!

They "BET" on the fact that the person being sued knows they owe the money,
(TO SOMEONE, USUALLY THE ORIGINAL CREDIT CARD COMPANY)

And will "CAVE IN" and pay them, not questioning whether or not they have
"PROOF" of ownership! And actual "LEGAL" title to collect!!

They 'BOMBARD The defendant, with "BOGUS" paperwork, most of it fraudulent, PRODUCED on their own computer systems, OUT RIGHT "LIE"
in court testimony, that they have enough "PROOF" to warrent a SUMMERY
JUDGMENT, AND THE JUDGE "COSIGNS" the actions,
THAT IS UNLESS YOU
DEMAND PROOFS TO VERIFIFY, COPY OF THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT,
ALL DEEDS OF TRANSFER FROM THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR TO THEM (SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFYING "YOUR ACCOUNT WITH NAME AND NUMBER)
NOT A BOGUS "FORM" TRANSFER generally given to them when they buy a portfolio of written off accounts,
AND THE LAST BILLING STATEMENT prior to write off.

So no they will go after your husbands bank account and yours, and it will take A massive legal nightmare for you to undo it!!

 

[gumbii2662]

I hope someone can reply to this new information I've discovered:
I've been going over the few pages of the so-called contract they sent me, and I noticed the name of the "original creditor" they list is US Bank. But then I looked at a collection letter regarding this same account, from a previous collector, and THAT letter lists the original creditor as "HSBC/Orchard Bank"! I KNOW that the credit card being collected on was from HSBC/Orchard Bank, because I never had a US Bank credit card. It looks like this collection agency is trying to pull a fast one on me, but I caught it (even though it took me a couple of days).
What do I do now? Should I send them a letter telling them to eff off? Should I consult with an attorney to sue the collectors for fraud? Should I just ignore it and see if they try to take me to court, then let the judge see they have no proof? There seems to be no way they can get a judgment against me if they obviously have no proof that this debt is valid, so I shouldn't worry about garnishments, right? (They'd need a judgment in order to get a garnishment, correct?)

 

[stop3rdpartycol]

I hope someone can reply to this new information I've discovered:
I've been going over the few pages of the so-called contract they sent me, and I noticed the name of the "original creditor" they list is US Bank. But then I looked at a collection letter regarding this same account, from a previous collector, and THAT letter lists the original creditor as "HSBC/Orchard Bank"! I KNOW that the credit card being collected on was from HSBC/Orchard Bank, because I never had a US Bank credit card. It looks like this collection agency is trying to pull a fast one on me, but I caught it (even though it took me a couple of days).
What do I do now? Should I send them a letter telling them to eff off? Should I consult with an attorney to sue the collectors for fraud? Should I just ignore it and see if they try to take me to court, then let the judge see they have no proof? There seems to be no way they can get a judgment against me if they obviously have no proof that this debt is valid, so I shouldn't worry about garnishments, right? (They'd need a judgment in order to get a garnishment, correct?)

Hmmmm you've got us totally confused..
you say a letter from a previous collector for the same account??
Is that the account number that is the same??

And what was the outcome from the previous collector??
Did you ask them to verify the account VIA validation letter??

As it reads now this current collector "HASN"T VERIFIED THE DEBT,"
if all they send you were copies of the "supposed" contract..

Question...
did the contract have your name and signature on it anywhere??

Send them a second letter asking for proper debt validation..
state that they haven't properly verified the account in question..
and you have no idea what they are referring to,

next question..
How did the debt validation letter that you send read??

 

[gumbii2662]

This collection account is old, very old. It has been sold off at least a couple of times. I have never asked for verification from any of the previous agencies that owned the debt, I just ignored them (though I did keep some of the letters, the last one being from "LVNV" offering me a settlement. Guess I should have taken it!)
The last letter I got from LVNV showed the original creditor as HSBC and that I owed $583. One month later, I got a letter from "Schmuck and Associates" stating that the debt is now in the hands of their client "So-and-So Services" and that it was a total of $1250, and that they were authorized to take legal action if I did not pay. I have since noticed that even THIS letter includes "HSBC" as the original creditor, but as you can see, they'd more than doubled the balance. That letter did also give me the chance to validate the debt within 30 days. This is the first time I have ever done so. I used a form letter I found online, requesting proper validation of the debt.
A month later (last week) I received a letter from them containing several pages of a USBank contract, and of course there was no signature on there. (They wouldn't have my signature on anything since I applied for the account online.) Also, like I said, they told me that "enclosed is an Affidavit of Indebtedness from USBank". There WAS no affidavit in the package, though at the moment I'm wishing there was because that would be proof in hand that they completely fabricated their "verification".
Does that clarify things any better for you? All that was enclosed in their effort of validation was a few pages of a USBank contract. No signature, no accounting for how they calculated they alleged debt, nothing else.

Edited to add: yes, the account number is the same on all the letters- the previous collector, as well as BOTH of the current collector's letters. But somehow the original creditor's name changed from HSBC to USBank while in the hands of current collector.