suspended

[EndOfStory]

Jurisdiction

New York

I was suspended pending termination for cashing in a coin star receipt that I found and cashed in. I was threatened by company security of being charged with grand larceny. It was for 51 dollars. I said I didn't think I did anything wrong besides using bad judgement. After I was suspended and was leaving the office the head of security said and we may still charge you with grand larceny. When I asked my union what I was suspended for he didn't no so I asked him to find out. He called me back and said for taking property of the company's that had there name on it and cashing it in. I said so am not being suspended for stealing. He said no they didn't say it was for theft. My question is what course of action do I have from here? My union rep says there going for termination, and I asked my rep what is his argument and he said am not sure ive only been doing this for 2 yrs. That made me feel great. I gave him a case of someone who took a copy of a coin star receipt and cashed it in and he wasn't fired and he was a bookkeeper. So my argument is why is the company looking to fire me when they didn't fire someone who did worse then me cashing something I found. I was found innocent of the last suspension for stealing Judge. But as you said to me before there's only so many times before my luck runs out. Am hoping to hear your insight Judge. Am only sorry it always has to be for the same things over and over. This is my 4th suspension in the past 4 yrs all the others came out the way they should of and that's me being returned to work. Any advice judge?

 

[cbg]

Your recourse is through the union. Suspending you or even firing you is legal, even if they didn't suspend or fire someone else.

 

[mightymoose]

Yup... Whatever options you have can be explained by your union.
This is more of an internal policy issue than a legal issue.
Having been through this a few times in the last four years I would expect them to pursue termination.
Do yourself a favor and seek new employment while this plays out... Just in case.

 

[hrforme]

How 'bout you just stop stealing? Then you wouldn't have to worry about getting suspended or terminated the 4th time you've been suspended...

 

[EndOfStory]

How 'bout you just stop stealing? Then you wouldn't have to worry about getting suspended or terminated the 4th time you've been suspended...

Never stole first of all second of all what you think doesn't matter at all. If you knew what ive been through the past 10 yrs you may have a different opinion but since I could care less about your advice am not wasting time explaining it. I came here to get advice from one person and will listen to all others but value the advice of just one. Not being mean just saying it the way it is. have a blessed day

 

[army judge]

I was suspended pending termination for cashing in a coin star receipt that I found and cashed in. I was threatened by company security of being charged with grand larceny. It was for 51 dollars. I said I didn't think I did anything wrong besides using bad judgement.


I was found innocent of the last suspension for stealing Judge. But as you said to me before there's only so many times before my luck runs out. Am hoping to hear your insight Judge. Am only sorry it always has to be for the same things over and over.


This is my 4th suspension in the past 4 yrs all the others came out the way they should of and that's me being returned to work. Any advice judge?

Hello, mate.

Sad to see you back here with your current dilemma.

I've reduced your post to the three things that stand out for me.

It might be four, so let's get started.

Legally the coinstar tickets are like lotto tickets, bearer bonds, cash, or slot machine cashout tickets. They are bearer instruments. That eliminates a crime or criminal charge.

Two, you violated the PRIME DIRECTIVE whenever one is in hot water, you opened your piehole and explained, admitted, talked.


Three, finding the ticket isn't a problem. Your employee handbook probably requires you to turn in all found property, including cash. That's where they've gotcha, plus your admission.

Well, I've arrived at four.
I'd play it out, but I'd expect the worse, termination.
Will the reason given be for theft?
That's where your union might be able to negotiate this down to something more palatable for you.

I don't see a criminal charge.
I do see great difficulty ahead for you in finding employment in the retail or grocery sector.
As I recall that's what you've done for 20 years.
If you need to work to eat, pay rent, get health care; start looking for employment tomorrow.
See what your union can do to help, and ask about classes for kleptomaniacs.

It could be argued that you have an illness.

You might wish to investigate in-patient rehab on ethics, honesty, and for kleptomania.
You might have a more harmful personality disorder.
Looking into a psychological evaluation could be useful.

You need to find out what drives you to do these tiny things that lead to your destruction, or disruption of your life and livelihood.

There you go, a little good news maybe, but a great many questions and to dos, too.

You've gotta to get better buddy.

 

[EndOfStory]

Hello, mate.

Sad to see you back here with your current dilemma.

I've reduced your post to the three things that stand out for me.

It might be four, so let's get started.

Legally the coinstar tickets are like lotto tickets, bearer bonds, cash, or slot machine cashout tickets. They are bearer instruments. That eliminates a crime or criminal charge.

Two, you violated the PRIME DIRECTIVE whenever one is in hot water, you opened your piehole and explained, admitted, talked.


Three, finding the ticket isn't a problem. Your employee handbook probably requires you to turn in all found property, including cash. That's where they've gotcha, plus your admission.

Well, I've arrived at four.
I'd play it out, but I'd expect the worse, termination.
Will the reason given be for theft?
That's where your union might be able to negotiate this down to something more palatable for you.

I don't see a criminal charge.
I do see great difficulty ahead for you in finding employment in the retail or grocery sector.
As I recall that's what you've done for 20 years.
If you need to work to eat, pay rent, get health care; start looking for employment tomorrow.
See what your union can do to help, and ask about classes for kleptomaniacs.

It could be argued that you have an illness.

You might wish to investigate in-patient rehab on ethics, honesty, and for kleptomania.
You might have a more harmful personality disorder.
Looking into a psychological evaluation could be useful.

You need to find out what drives you to do these tiny things that lead to your destruction, or disruption of your life and livelihood.

There you go, a little good news maybe, but a great many questions and to dos, too.

You've gotta to get better buddy.

I am kind of tired of fighting them. I should of enforced my Weingarten rights but honestly didn't think I did anything that violated company policy. They didn't say I stole but took company property with there name on it and cashed it. I did inform my union rep of my gambling problem and made him aware of the in store gambling that other employees run to make money. His reply was all the stores do that. I said yes and the company is aware of it as well. I buy my lottery numbers everyday at work so there aware of that also. And I also said I have an alcoholic problem that started when my dad was sick... He said he didn't think they will believe me. Am at a cross road in life and not sure if this is happening so I end up being with my mom and taking care of her the way my dad told her I would. She fell the other day and she has many times in the past few yrs. Even though my brother lives around the corner from her when I asked if he was staying with her she said are you kidding me. I said no why wouldn't he she replied that's not him that would be you. So I feel bad that she has know one to be there when it matters the most. I stayed at my dad's side till the end. It hurt but was what he did for me my entire life. I know this has nothing to do with my current problem lol just giving you some insight. I really love my job I love helping people and the customers always say how happy and out going I am. Imagine if my employer treated me the way they treat other employees who could care less about helping customers. I have this one last fight in me and if I prevail I think ill just go and do what my father would want me to do. I hate losing and thinking they got me in the end. I have a meeting next week with human resources and when I called them today I never heard back. I told my union rep I need help.... Not sure if my addictions will save me from the termination or not. But I do need help regardless.

 

[cbg]

So you don't think what you did was stealing? Interesting...

Not sure if my addictions will save me from the termination or not.

If by this you mean you think there is a law out there somewhere that says you can't be termed if you have an addiction, there isn't. If you're not fired, it will be because your employer chooses not to fire you or because your union contract says otherwise. I assure you that there is nothing in anything you've posted that makes it illegal for you to be either suspended or fired.

 

[EndOfStory]

So you don't think what you did was stealing? Interesting...

Not sure if my addictions will save me from the termination or not.

If by this you mean you think there is a law out there somewhere that says you can't be termed if you have an addiction, there isn't. If you're not fired, it will be because your employer chooses not to fire you or because your union contract says otherwise. I assure you that there is nothing in anything you've posted that makes it illegal for you to be either suspended or fired.

Am hoping my employer chooses not to fire me under the circumstances but am not holding my breathe. Maybe the person in charge will finally see all he has caused me over the past 10 yrs by having managers treat me differently then other employees. When your manager says I guess you were hitting the pipe again and you've learned to live with whatever they say because it would do me no good to report it. And that's just 1 example of many that I put up with constantly. Ive been told am my managers slave. How would you like to be talked to like that at work and you have no recourse to make it stop.

 

[army judge]

How would you like to be talked to like that at work and you have no recourse to make it stop.

You do have recourse.

You are free to resign and sell your services to an employer who appreciates the people within their employ.

Alternatively you are free to do what I did, retire.

I occasionally do take certain cases, but its at my leisure, not at the whim of an employer.

These days I enjoy just living.

I've worked hard to allow myself this choice, and understand its not for everyone.

My point to you is you're free to walk away anytime you wish.

You're not a slave, no one in this country is a slave.

Slavery was outlawed in our country during the mid 19th century, and a constitutional amendment exists to prove it.

 

[EndOfStory]

You do have recourse.

You are free to resign and sell your services to an employer who appreciates the people within their employ.

Alternatively you are free to do what I did, retire.

I occasionally do take certain cases, but its at my leisure, not at the whim of an employer.

These days I enjoy just living.

I've worked hard to allow myself this choice, and understand its not for everyone.

My point to you is you're free to walk away anytime you wish.

You're not a slave, no one in this country is a slave.

Slavery was outlawed in our country during the mid 19th century, and a constitutional amendment exists to prove it.

How I wish I could Judge how I wish I could. Starting over isn't really an option for me. If it comes down to it i'll have no choice but ive been through much tougher things in my life starting at age 5 and it hasn't gotten easier since. Am a fighter always have been and always will be I guess. I made my bed now I must sleep in it that's what my pop always taught me. How I miss his wisdom and guidance.. I know what I need to do and with prayer and strength I will prevail after all it is only a job. I am entitled to an early pension in a yr and a half so ill take it and start enjoying working for someone who appreciates a hard worker. I just don't know how some people live with themselves doing things to others for no reason other then they suck.... I know who I am and that's really all that matters....

 

[EndOfStory]

You do have recourse.

You are free to resign and sell your services to an employer who appreciates the people within their employ.

Alternatively you are free to do what I did, retire.

I occasionally do take certain cases, but its at my leisure, not at the whim of an employer.

These days I enjoy just living.

I've worked hard to allow myself this choice, and understand its not for everyone.

My point to you is you're free to walk away anytime you wish.

You're not a slave, no one in this country is a slave.

Slavery was outlawed in our country during the mid 19th century, and a constitutional amendment exists to prove it.

Here's the update on the meeting held today. Not sure if you can advise me on my questions but I always admired your advice in the past. Before the meeting I advised my union rep field director that I have knowledge of a prior employee who cashed in a coin star that he found during his counting of the office money to be correct and came across a duplicate receipt and cashed it in. I believe the sum was 400 to 500 dollars. My union rep's boss who was at the meeting seemed interested in that info because he got on the horn right away to see if there was any grievance on that case. It did happen about 15 yrs or so. I don't no if my union rep wanted his boss at the meeting for my benefit or they were afraid id claim I was represented properly due to him telling me he's only been doing this for 2 yrs and is learning on the job. I didn't like hearing that and told him so. He called me back and said he talked to his boss about the suspension and asked if he would come to our meeting. I felt better that he was gonna be there. I found out at the meeting that my union rep lied to me when he said the customer who lost the receipt knew the exact amount of the receipt but during the meeting the labor of relations said the customer knew around how much it was. I didn't say anything after the meeting to my union rep asking why he lied. My question is and am wondering if I should seek an Attorney to represent me for the termination for what the company stated was not a violation of a written policy that it was a moral issue. My rep asked if they had a policy in the store where employees can read and know what they deem a violation of procedure. Now the big question Judge does the company admitting there's no written policy allow me to argue at Arbitration that I didn't violate a company policy. And does the prior incident with the other employee who wasn't fired give me an argument to use an Arbitration. If my union tells me after second meeting that they feel we won't win at Arbitration so there for there not gonna file a grievance to I then say ok i'll hire my own Attorney and fight the grievance. I have about 2 weeks to decide my case at Arbitration. I didn't like my union rep telling me of all the cases he has where employees were fired for things that didn't pertain to me, I said can you tell me any instances where you saved someone's job. Am not sure if my union is gonna do more for me then they have to without it being a case of not representing me fairly. I hope am wrong. So my 2 questions basically are the moral issue the company is saying is why there firing me and does the other employee's past incident help me in a grievance where they didn't fire him for him cashing receipt knowing it wasn't his. I feel more comfortable in fighting my case since I know there whole issue is moral and not violating a company policy. Thanks Judge for any input you can offer. I know I lost your respect doing what I did to put myself in this position. Also I cashed the receipt 3 days after the date it had on it don't no if that matters or not. Thanks and Merry Christmas to you and yours. P.S. if you can keep me in your wife's prayer group meetings id appreciate it.

 

[cbg]

This is still a matter of your union contract. How they handled another similar issue 15 years ago has no consequence whatsoever to how they handle yours; there's no guarantee that the contract read the same 15 years ago as it does today. Neither the "moral" issue or the date of the receipt doesn't matter either. You can still be termed unless your union contract says you can't. I haven't seen any indication in what you've posted so far to suggest that your union is interested in saving your job, but that's up to them.

 

[EndOfStory]

This is still a matter of your union contract. How they handled another similar issue 15 years ago has no consequence whatsoever to how they handle yours; there's no guarantee that the contract read the same 15 years ago as it does today. Neither the "moral" issue or the date of the receipt doesn't matter either. You can still be termed unless your union contract says you can't. I haven't seen any indication in what you've posted so far to suggest that your union is interested in saving your job, but that's up to them.

the union contract states the company has to have good cause to fire an employee and there's no policy in writing that says I violated a company policy. the prior incident matters for the mere reason if you didn't find him morally wrong how can you rule what I did a violation of a non written policy. I no none of this is a legal matter just wondering if I go to claim a grievance if the prior incident helps me in the judges eyes. I know morally isn't the same as having a written policy stating there does and don'ts and hopefully they will have a written policy so employees can see what it is. They have one in every store stating lots of there policys but there's none written about lost and found items. but I appreciate your input

 

[hrforme]

no <> know... sorry it's really bugging me...

Something that they didn't feel morally wrong 15 years ago (and possibly had differing detail) can be changed to something the current managers do feel morally wrong. No company is required to have the same policy that they did 15 years ago!

No they don't have to have a written policy on every possible reason you could be terminated. There would be no way to write a document that did so. You should have learned in kindergarten that finding something that doesn't belong to you means that it is not yours and you shouldn't cash it. I can't believe you think there should be a written policy that states this.

My DH was a contractor for a while at a major (in every town) retailer. He left his $200 sunglasses on a table in a conference room at their corporate office. He realized it the next day and said something to one of their employees. The employee took him back to the conference room and there they say. There was NO question that they belonged to anyone else and no question that you could be terminated for taking them. There were cameras everywhere, but no signs on "lost and found".

oh wait, I am not "army judge" so maybe I shouldn't respond

 

[ElleMD]

You took $51 from a customer. That's a no-brainer termination. You *should* have turned it into lost and found or given it to a manager in case the customer came back. If they had dropped their wallet containing $51, would you still think you should get to keep it? The fact that this is the 4th time in a very short period that your job has been in jeopardy due to your poor judgment and your union isn't terribly interested in defending you speaks volumes. I've worked in a union environment as others who have responded here. I would be shocked if you couldn't be legally fired under your CBA for this. If your employer chooses not to fire you, you seem to be under the impression that means you did nothing wrong, which is faulty thinking. Often, it just isn't worth the time and hassle to put up with your grievance. 99% of the time, that is the case, but eventually, your luck WILL run out and your employer WILL decide they have had enough. That may be this time. You may luck out and it will be some other time.

While in a union environment defacto practices *can* be precedent setting, one situation 15 years ago falls far, far short of this standard. Who knows why they did what they did 15 years ago. The odds that the situation was identical and the exact same managers and CBA were in place are remote. Even if it was, recency works against you as it was 15 years ago.

 

[EndOfStory]

Here's the update on the meeting held today. Not sure if you can advise me on my questions but I always admired your advice in the past. Before the meeting I advised my union rep field director that I have knowledge of a prior employee who cashed in a coin star that he found during his counting of the office money to be correct and came across a duplicate receipt and cashed it in. I believe the sum was 400 to 500 dollars. My union rep's boss who was at the meeting seemed interested in that info because he got on the horn right away to see if there was any grievance on that case. It did happen about 15 yrs or so. I don't no if my union rep wanted his boss at the meeting for my benefit or they were afraid id claim I was represented properly due to him telling me he's only been doing this for 2 yrs and is learning on the job. I didn't like hearing that and told him so. He called me back and said he talked to his boss about the suspension and asked if he would come to our meeting. I felt better that he was gonna be there. I found out at the meeting that my union rep lied to me when he said the customer who lost the receipt knew the exact amount of the receipt but during the meeting the labor of relations said the customer knew around how much it was. I didn't say anything after the meeting to my union rep asking why he lied. My question is and am wondering if I should seek an Attorney to represent me for the termination for what the company stated was not a violation of a written policy that it was a moral issue. My rep asked if they had a policy in the store where employees can read and know what they deem a violation of procedure. Now the big question Judge does the company admitting there's no written policy allow me to argue at Arbitration that I didn't violate a company policy. And does the prior incident with the other employee who wasn't fired give me an argument to use an Arbitration. If my union tells me after second meeting that they feel we won't win at Arbitration so there for there not gonna file a grievance to I then say ok i'll hire my own Attorney and fight the grievance. I have about 2 weeks to decide my case at Arbitration. I didn't like my union rep telling me of all the cases he has where employees were fired for things that didn't pertain to me, I said can you tell me any instances where you saved someone's job. Am not sure if my union is gonna do more for me then they have to without it being a case of not representing me fairly. I hope am wrong. So my 2 questions basically are the moral issue the company is saying is why there firing me and does the other employee's past incident help me in a grievance where they didn't fire him for him cashing receipt knowing it wasn't his. I feel more comfortable in fighting my case since I know there whole issue is moral and not violating a company policy. Thanks Judge for any input you can offer. I know I lost your respect doing what I did to put myself in this position. Also I cashed the receipt 3 days after the date it had on it don't no if that matters or not. Thanks and Merry Christmas to you and yours. P.S. if you can keep me in your wife's prayer group meetings id appreciate it.

Happy New Year Judge. So the Company is willing to return me to work if I withdraw my unemployment claim... Which was approved by the State and I been receiving since the second week of me filing it. I said to my union rep I been approved and am not paying it back. I will pay back the 50 dollar I found which I offered to do the day after I was suspended. He said he would have to call the company back and see what they wanna do now that I told him I was already receiving payments from unemployment. I haven't heard back as of yet. And I suppose the company is talking to there lawyers about it not looking like I was fired for an unjust case. This is the 4th time in the past 4 yrs I been fired pending and all 4 I was approved for unemployment basing it was no fault of my own to be terminated. I don't know if I should continue the unemployment and seek legal advice about bringing a lawsuit against them for retaliation on a supervisor I reported around the time all this termination has began. I would collect unemployment and go back to school and get a degree and do something I been wanting to since I took care of my Dad when he was Sick. I am at a cross road and even if I return to work I know it wont end until they get something to stick. The union rep said my next violation of a company policy is my last. I said you mean the next one that sticks? I told him I been through this 4 times in the past 5 yrs. Had I not knew about the prior employee who did the same thing I did finding money and not turning it in I wouldn't had got my job back. It wouldn't look good if I was fired and he wasn't. especially since I have 25 yrs and he had only 3 when it happened to him. I guess am just venting but its been a tough past two months. Thanks Judge for always listening

 

[army judge]

Each day that you spend in a place you dislike is another day wasted from the finite days you have on this planet.

You must decide, mate.

If I were faced with your decision, I'd enroll in school, get that degree I've always wanted.

Then I'd spend the next 20-25 years doing THAT thing I've always wanted to do.

But, that's me mate, I used to gamble by betting on myself.

Good luck, but remember, behave yourself.

 

[EndOfStory]

Each day that you spend in a place you dislike is another day wasted from the finite days you have on this planet.

You must decide, mate.

If I were faced with your decision, I'd enroll in school, get that degree I've always wanted.

Then I'd spend the next 20-25 years doing THAT thing I've always wanted to do.

But, that's me mate, I used to gamble by betting on myself.

Good luck, but remember, behave yourself.

I know what your saying but I got 25 yrs with my current job am only lookin for another 10 yrs. I also know this wont be the last time this happens if I stay with my current job. The union said the next time I violate a company policy am done. I said they said that the past four times and each time I was granted unemployment and returned back to work because they knew they wouldn't win at a arbitration hearing. They waited till find out if I was gonna get approved this time and when I did that's when they offered to return me to work. Am sure there aware of a Lawsuit for harassment. I mean anyone who knows the details would have to agree with my claim. I might ask if they will offer me a deal to walk away and not seek a lawsuit against them if the terms are agreed upon. But I wont make the money I make now starting over. I make top scale pay. Do you think I have a case against them for harassment and retaliation and be able to win. I know you don't know all the details but u no I been suspended four times in the past 4 yrs and been told I was terminated each time till they knew they wouldn't win in court. Believe me the top man who's after me will not be happy that am returning to work. It will only make him come after me harder to make something stick, most likely something made up that I can't get out of. That's my biggest worry, then I have no lawsuit because it will look like am suing because of being fired. I know am venting but you seem to always listen lol and your advice is always spot on. Well Judge ill know more tomorrow when the union calls me back to say what the company said about me withdrawing my unemployment claim. Am not paying it back they can appeal it like they did the 3 past times and never even showed up at the hearing. Does it help my case that the unemployment board found me not at fault or is it something they don't take into consideration. Well that's about all I wanted to say for know. Thanks again

 

[hrforme]

The bar for unemployment benefits has nothing to do with whether the employer had the right to terminate you. That depends on your CBA and employment laws. Unemployment decisions depend on state law and reasonings of both the employer and the employee. I've never heard of an employer returning an employee to work just to get out of the unemployment benefits. Because in the end the state pays the benefits although the employers are taxed for them. And their tax rate depends on how many claims there are.