Property Invasion, Damages, Trespass Public school playground students trespassing on private property and soccer balls

[Dushan29]

Since the beginning of buying our new home, the middle school adjacent to our property and separated by a 10 foot high concrete fence, their side. My side is about 5 feet high. We've lived here more than 15 years. We are a HOA with 24 homes facing the field separated by the concrete fence. As a former teacher in the district, I met with the superintendent many years ago regarding the students playing on the field and constantly hitting balls into our property, and being hoisted on one's shoulders to scale the 10 foot high wall to enter into our backyard properties to retrieve their balls. This is clearly trespassing. The superintendent said we do not have to return the balls and if the students of the school, and the weekend soccer leagues persisted in hitting the balls over the fence into one's property that the leagues would be suspended for the season. In the beginning I used to return the balls but I found that the students nor the soccer leagues were not as courteous with me nor the other home owners. So, I never returned them, but donated them to other organizations. Within the past year, I gave away over a dozen soccer balls to one particular organization, and more recently, I've accumulated within this past two weeks another 3 balls. These balls hit our large kitchen windows, double-paned, and they have destroyed parts of the wiring on our screens as well as on our large sliding door window. I replaced one screen window, but I have yet to replace the sliding door screen. This could run up to a few hundred dollars.

Within the past few weeks, I found a young weekend soccer player in our yard to retrieve his ball. I could have captured him, but I didn't do so because this would have created a problem with the adults. So, I called the police, and reported the incident. When the soccer leagues did not abide by the rules, the school district suspended all the week-end soccer leagues.

But now, I have a problem with the students of the middle school. They horse around and they like to kick the soccer balls against the concrete fence on their side. Also, when they play, they don't keep to using the length of the field to kick the ball, but instead, they kick the ball towards the adjacent home owners properties. This is not acceptable to me because it doesn't take rocket science to understand that if you hit the ball towards the concrete fence, the ball will fly over the wall. This is no longer a mere nuisance. This is disturbing our peace and quiet of our home. Those balls hitting our windows have a large thud to them, and I'm afraid that one day, the ball will crack our double-paned window which would have to be entirely replaced. These windows have to be removed from the stucco frame in order to replace them. This is very costly. We've been wrangling with the District that they have an obligation for students not to be kicking the balls towards our properties. But I get from them that the students have their rights to the field for physical activity. I explained to the District that I too have private property rights. They need to have their teachers monitor how they play on the field. I have no problem with this because they need their physical activities. But, I don't think they have a right to keep kicking the balls towards our property with intent. They can control this, but I think they believe that their rights trump my property rights.

Since I began this process of attempting to stop the above with both the students and week-end soccer leagues, I've recorded and reported every incident for the purpose of eventually getting a court order to stop the students and the leagues from hitting the balls towards our properties. With the leagues, I've reported the trespassing and hitting of the balls into our property several times. I have papers going back to the first days over 15 years ago when we attempted to stop some of this.

What I seek from those who may be in a position is to find some sort of case law about similar circumstances as mine. Our HOA hired over a year ago a HOA management firm. We have about 60 homes, and virtually most of the residents are not participants nor attend any meetings. I no longer go to them. I found that far too many just don't want to get involved. So, I'm very much alone in pursuing the school district. We do have reports of previous members, including board members, contacting the middle school about a number of problems including soccer balls, baseballs, parking issues, students using our gated community for short cuts, and other issues. For the next few weeks, I'm waiting to find out if the middle school will do anything about using more close monitoring of their students using the playing field. I doubt it, and eventually I may have to contact an attorney to protect my property rights.

I know this is a long discussion, but I had to give a perspective that might help me to identify if I can really do something about this problem. I'm open to some suggestions.

 

[mightymoose]

This is clearly trespassing.

No, it is not. Read Penal Code 602 in its entirety to learn what trespassing "clearly" is.

The superintendent said we do not have to return the balls and if the students of the school, and the weekend soccer leagues persisted in hitting the balls over the fence into one's property that the leagues would be suspended for the season.

No, you do not have to return the balls to the kids, since they don't legally own anything. However when the school officials or other adult comes to claim the balls it would be in your best interest to return them. Purposely withholding property from the owner is a form of theft.

In the beginning I used to return the balls but I found that the students nor the soccer leagues were not as courteous with me nor the other home owners. So, I never returned them, but donated them to other organizations.

You shouldn't do that. If they ever wanted to sue you over the value of lost soccer balls you could easily end up buying them new ones. If it were me, I would hold the soccer balls until an adult came to collect them.

These balls hit our large kitchen windows, double-paned, and they have destroyed parts of the wiring on our screens as well as on our large sliding door window. I replaced one screen window, but I have yet to replace the sliding door screen. This could run up to a few hundred dollars.

You should take your damage claims to the school district. They have insurance, as well as the sports organizations that use the school property.

Within the past few weeks, I found a young weekend soccer player in our yard to retrieve his ball. I could have captured him, but I didn't do so because this would have created a problem with the adults.

It also would have created a problem with you and the police, ending with you in jail. Don't do it. You will end up being charged with assault/battery on a minor and possibly even kidnapping or false imprisonment.

So, I called the police, and reported the incident.

I doubt the police cared. You have a civil problem that needs to be resolved between yourself and the school/sports leagues.

But now, I have a problem with the students of the middle school. They horse around and they like to kick the soccer balls against the concrete fence on their side. Also, when they play, they don't keep to using the length of the field to kick the ball, but instead, they kick the ball towards the adjacent home owners properties. This is not acceptable to me because it doesn't take rocket science to understand that if you hit the ball towards the concrete fence, the ball will fly over the wall.

Yes, sooner or later the ball will go over the wall- but you need to understand that nobody is doing anything wrong. You need to work out an agreement with the school district. Go see the superintendent. If that isn't getting you anywhere try your local city council.

This is no longer a mere nuisance. This is disturbing our peace and quiet of our home.

Perhaps your HOA will allow you to run up a net to prevent the balls from coming over the fence? You have a lot of ways to pursue a solution here.

We've been wrangling with the District that they have an obligation for students not to be kicking the balls towards our properties.

No, they don't. Honestly that is a bit silly. They do, however, have liability if the students cause damage to your property.

But I get from them that the students have their rights to the field for physical activity.

Yep.

I explained to the District that I too have private property rights. They need to have their teachers monitor how they play on the field.

Yes, and it is in their best interest to do so if they don't want to get stuck with bills for repairing your windows.

I have no problem with this because they need their physical activities. But, I don't think they have a right to keep kicking the balls towards our property with intent.

They can kick the ball toward your property with intent all day long if they want to. So long as their intent is not to break your windows or otherwise cause damage or injury they are doing nothing wrong.

They can control this, but I think they believe that their rights trump my property rights.

Not at all- it seems they just understand what their rights are, and that your complaint does not compel them to do anything. I'm serious... next time you have property damage caused by these soccer balls stick the school with the bill and sue in small claims if they refuse to pay. Once it costs them something they will fix the problem.

Since I began this process of attempting to stop the above with both the students and week-end soccer leagues, I've recorded and reported every incident for the purpose of eventually getting a court order to stop the students and the leagues from hitting the balls towards our properties.

You probably won't get that- but if you have your HOA behind you then you might get somewhere. I doubt the HOA will want to take on the school district over this though. There are simpler ways to resolve this.

Personally I don't think you will get anywhere with the approach you are trying to take. Unless you have actual damage then you have no complaint to make. When you do have actual damage you need to hold the school accountable. You will have an easy argument at that point. Also, what you believe is trespassing is not so at all unless there is some kind of criminal intent involved. Students retrieving a ball does not establish trespassing.

 

[Dushan29]

Mighty, thank you for your response. I do appreciate the time you've taken to discuss many points.


In response to trespassing. Our gated community has a city ordinance posted at both the front and rear entrances of our HOA which reads as follows: PRIVATE PROPERTY, NO TRESPASSING CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT Code XXXX

"It shall be unlawful for any person to enter or go upon or pass over or remain upon any land of another where the owner of such property, or the person entitled to the possession thereof for the time being, or the authorized agent of either, has posted or caused to be posted upon the land printed notices that the land is private property and warning all persons from trespassing thereon"

The middle school is well aware of the signs and which eventually stopped the students from entering our gated community and walking the ledge of the long 10 foot high concrete fence as well as entering into anyone's backyard. We've had these discussions. It's clearly trespassing which got the blessing of the city ordinance with help from the police department which assisted our HOA in this matter.

As for signs along the wall facing the school yard, we've asked them repeatedly to post signs, but they've failed to do so. That's their problem. We've brought it up many times, and they have no leg to stand on in case this winds up in court.

And as I read the penal code 602 Except as provided in subdivision (u), subdivision (v),
subdivision (x), and Section 602.8, every person who willfully
commits a trespass by any of the following acts is guilty of a
misdemeanor: "Section (m) Entering and occupying real property or structures of any kind
without the consent of the owner, the owner's agent, or the person
in lawful possession".

And the person in charge of the school facilities who sat down with us back in 1997 was witness in my personal face-to-face discussions with the superintendent who said "You don't have to return the balls." I've advised them many times that I've donated these balls to the police department, Goodwill, and other organizations. They are aware of what me and others have done. They've had many years to challenge us on the ownership of these balls, and they've never done so. When the students and week-end soccer leagues willfully disobey the rules as set forth by the school district with total disregard for one's property, they risk losing their balls. I'm trying to prevent a big problem here. If a ball whacks a window to the point where it crashes with shards splattered, and I or a visitor is sitting next to it and becomes injured, someone has to be held accountable.

As for seizing someone on my property, I ran this by the police department. They had no qualms about me doing so. Now, if I were to be challenged by someone on my property for no good reason, I would have to defend myself. I'm a US Army veteran, and I grew up in the inner city of Chicago. I don't own any weapons at all. I could have grabbed and held that young boy and waited for the police. He was trespassing and the adults assisted him in scaling the fence. They are all complicit.

The school district gets our property taxes, and not only as a former teacher, but as a property owner, the school district has to instill a degree of ethical behavior to all of their students. They have to learn that it's us home owners who are paying the bill for their education, and that they must understand and respect our private property rights. Now, here in California, when I intend to sell our property, it requires us to disclose problems we've had with neighbors. Now, I surely want to get to a point where hitting balls into one's backyard is the rare exception and not the ordinary. Of course, I want to sell at the highest property value, and having major problems with neighbors will degrade the selling price of our homes. Virtually all of the homes facing the school yard have had problems with the middle school and week-end soccer teams.

It would really be a great help to have the HOA and members behind me on this, but I've been there and done that, and I find home owners here just don't like to get involved. They rely upon me and a few others who go out on the limb to protect their properties and in doing so, help to protect everyone's property. Years ago, when we first moved here, I made a number of proposals regarding parking, posting signs, speed limits, dog's running loose and defecating, etc. I was looked upon as a trouble maker. Well, the new HOA management team is still hammering out parking issues. They are merely doing what I proposed from the first time I brought it up 15 years ago. They have come down hard, and I feel vindicated. Now, every homeowner can only park their vehicles in their garage or their driveways. Parking on the street for residents is prohibited and for the use of visitors only. As of March 15, any vehicle found on the street without a permit tag will be towed immediately. No effort will be made to contact the owner of the vehicle. I've been vindicated on every proposal that I made years ago.

Mighty, I don't mind going it alone. I can get things done much better than if I had to work with an HOA committee, of which no one cares to volunteer for anything. We have a board, and that's it. We have a neighborhood watch program with no one sitting on it. Just signs on the outside. You may think that my approach with the school district is not so good, but I disagree. I intend to resolve this issue. The District has its hands full as it is, and my problem is not so great, but they will have to deal with it. The District now has to contend with several principals and counselors who've been arrested and indicted for molesting their students. The District will get sued by the parents. The city itself is rampant with teenage murders including the death of students on the various school campuses. The administrators have their hands full on many other issues including being strapped for cash. They've had to layoff some teachers and staff. Not all is well with the communities and the various school campuses. And as I had been with the District years ago before I retired, I ran into so many administrators who were totally incompetent for their positions. They change principals and vice principals very often. At my school, I ran through quite a few, and the last one as I had known from the day she started there that she was a racist. After I left, she was ousted by the heavily ethnic community. I saw it coming from the first year she came on board.

Today, I just got a quote for the repair of the large sliding door screen. Almost $200 with using the best screen available. I've taken photos of our damaged screen, and I shall be presenting a letter to the superintendent with the necessary information very soon. I hope they honor it because the next step is small claims court. And I will be investigating in obtaining a court order on a cease and desist order to the District regarding the balls being hit towards our properties. This has been an issue for over 15 years.

In a recent email from the facilities manager, I was told the middle school can not control their students on the field. This will make good reading in the local news media. I don't think the Board of Trustees will care to hear about this. Of course, I disagreed with her and told her so in a responding email. The public has already seen enough of the crime, and the failure rates of some of the schools. One District was already taken over by the State.

I'm always open to criticism, and I used to tell my students,

Nothing beats a failure except a failure to try at all

"A barking dog is often more useful than a sleeping lion."
~ Washington Irving

 

[mightymoose]

Well I will have to disagree with you on the application of the trespass statute, however your local ordinance is worded better toward this matter. I find it highly unlikely any officer would arrest or cite a kid retrieving a ball though.
If you had the support of neighbors and were working with larger numbers I think you would have better results.
Personally, I feel your most practical approach is to present the bills for your damages and sue if they fail to pay.
As for apprehending a child on your property I suggest you consult an attorney before doing so. You could easily land yourself in jail and undermine your overall intent.
Good luck to you. As you know it is all uphill- difficult but not impossible.

 

[CdwJava]

In response to trespassing. Our gated community has a city ordinance posted at both the front and rear entrances of our HOA which reads as follows: PRIVATE PROPERTY, NO TRESPASSING CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT Code XXXX

"It shall be unlawful for any person to enter or go upon or pass over or remain upon any land of another where the owner of such property, or the person entitled to the possession thereof for the time being, or the authorized agent of either, has posted or caused to be posted upon the land printed notices that the land is private property and warning all persons from trespassing thereon"

The presence of the signs, by itself, is not necessarily going to constitute trespassing. Yes, you can call the police and DEMAND a private person's arrest of the child who hopped your fence to get a soccer ball or other playground equipment, but are you really ready for the media attention of that and how that might make YOU appear?

The school is not condoning the entry into your yard as it is an act of an individual. As Mightymoose said - if you have damages, stick the school with the bill if you can. If someone trespasses, call the police. But, if it is some kid retrieving a ball, don't expect them to get all excited about it and unless you demand a private person's arrest, don't expect it to go anywhere. Even WITH the arrest (which will result in a citation if anything) that is no guarantee that the DA will pursue charges. It would still be in your best interest to try and work with the school or come up with some other solution to these problems.

And the person in charge of the school facilities who sat down with us back in 1997 was witness in my personal face-to-face discussions with the superintendent who said "You don't have to return the balls."

Clearly, whoever you spoke with was unfamiliar with the law. At worst you would be committing theft, at best, misappropriation of found property.

I've advised them many times that I've donated these balls to the police department, Goodwill, and other organizations. They are aware of what me and others have done. They've had many years to challenge us on the ownership of these balls, and they've never done so.

Lucky you. Because they have not done so does not make your actions lawful ... it only makes you lucky.

If a ball whacks a window to the point where it crashes with shards splattered, and I or a visitor is sitting next to it and becomes injured, someone has to be held accountable.

And that would be when you take action in small claims court.

As for seizing someone on my property, I ran this by the police department. They had no qualms about me doing so.

As long as the other party does not complain, they have no standing to act. So, of course they would have no problem with it. Unless someone calls them and says you are holding their property, the police have no standing to act.

Today, I just got a quote for the repair of the large sliding door screen. Almost $200 with using the best screen available. I've taken photos of our damaged screen, and I shall be presenting a letter to the superintendent with the necessary information very soon. I hope they honor it because the next step is small claims court. And I will be investigating in obtaining a court order on a cease and desist order to the District regarding the balls being hit towards our properties. This has been an issue for over 15 years.

Small claims court is viable. A cease and desist order, highly doubtful.

The other problem you might have is that the school was there when you bought the house, right? Well, that could present some difficulty in suddenly claiming surprise that kids (and even adults) are using the facilities and making it noisy or inconvenient at times. I have seen homeowners that live near high school ballfields and across the street from a high school field where vehicles and property damage has occurred LOSE such claims, so don't be entirely certain that you will prevail.