Paid Private Party Money, Now fighting for Refund....

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DRocha

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Hi, I could really use some suggestions on how I might be able to handle the situation I'm in. I'm from California, and the other party is in Wisconsin.


Early May 2004 during the Mini Pocketbike, or pocket rocket craze, I found a seller(Chris) who was willing to sell me what I wanted for a great price. We agreed on a deal and when it came down to paying I was instructed to make the money payable to another person(woman) who lived in the same town and happened to be his wife. So I sent $6,228.00 to a private party person (Carol) who I had not been dealing with, nor who I have ever talked to. The Man said that they would be able to send me the pocketbikes I had purchased within 30 days. I sent specific instructions not to cash my money unless they were sure that they would be able to meet the 30 day deadline. I stated that if they could not meet the 30 day deadline that I would no longer be interested in the product and that I would need to be refunded. They accepted.

30 days passed and they have nothing to send me, their order had not yet arrived. I demanded my money back. They refunded $3,000 of the total $6,228.00 because I had threatened that DISCOVER would come after their money, unfortunately I had only used 3k of the money through my Discovercard, the rest was a money order through my bank. To make a long story short, it's been just over 7 months since they cashed my checks and they have so far only refunded me 3k of the $6,228. They still owe me $3,228.

During the last 5 months or so, Chris being my only contact has given me nothing but multiple storys about what's going on and more importantly has been making excuses for CAROL and why she can't pay me back. Chris, has told me that she filed bankrupcy " the one where she agrees to pay her creditors back" as he put it. about a month later, Chris stated that him and his wife were no longer together and that he could not really help me anymore. A month after that, Chris has now told me that him and his wife have restrianing orders against each other and that he doesn't even have visitation rights to his child and that he doesn't even know where she's staying. I have no way to contact Carol the person that I sent the money payable to. I have her name and address that i originally sent the money payable to. I also have a copy of the check that was sent to me with their bank name and account number on it. But that's all.

As of Today, Chris suggested that I write a letter to her threatening to go to the police and to file criminal charges against her if she doesn't pay within 2 weeks. Chris also said that she would probably get scared and borrow money from her parents to pay me back. I asked how she would get the letter if she was no longer at the same address he said to send him a copy and that the letter would be forwarded to her current address.

I personally think the guy is full of SH#&. I've thought about contacting the police in his/her area but will that do me any good?

Would I have more luck going trough credit collections?

Please any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
D Rocha
 
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From what I read here you had a contract for sale of some goods between you and Chris and he assigned his rights to Carol. He breached the contract. Therefore he should be the one who is liable. So you probably can sue him. You probably can also sue her in a restitution action.

The police can only help in very limited ways. There might be some justification for a fraud complaint here, but even if they would file fraud charges, that does not give you your money back. You have to sue yourself.
 
What do I do now?

Thank you for your response.

What should my first move be?

Should I contact the police in their area to see if it will be enough to scare her and to let her know that I'm not messing around when they contact him or her?

Sorry I don't know more about this, but where would I go to even start to sue somebody? Not only that, would it even be worth it to sue somebody for $3,228.00??


I truly appreciate your responses.

Thanks
Derek
 
This is tough to answer. Suing them will be an inconvenience, because probably you will have to sue them in Wisconsin, in a court where they live. On the other hand, this is a lot of money.

There might be some more issues, like if all legal requirements for the contract have been met etc. so that you probably would need an attorney to look at this to decide on the right action to take, either an action for breach or an action for restitution.

But at least you can indicate your intent to sue. And I would make it pretty clear to this "Chris" that he is not off the hook, he is a party to the contract and therefore liable.

Contacting the police cannot hurt, so you might wantt o do that, too.

What I would do is, send a "demand letter", certified mail with return receipt, to both of them, demanding restitution of all outstanding monies within 10 days or so, and telling them that you will sue if you have not received the money by that deadline. And then see what will happen.
 
I truly appreciate it, I will keep you updated on how it goes. I have copies of every email and deal that was ever made for evidence. Most of everything we did was through email with very little phone conversations.

All see what I can do.

Thanks
Derek
 
Bleow is a copy of what I have written up to send to the person who cash my checks and has yet to refund me in full. How does it sound?



Dear Carol:

It's been just over 6 months since I demanded my money in full refunded to me as per the deal we made back in May 2004. You refunded me $3,000 of the $6,228 that you owed me. You currently owe me $3,228.00. I have asked you politely many times since June to kindly refund me the remainder of my money. It is unacceptable for me to wait any longer. I have spoken to a licensed attorney and I have shown him every email between me and your business, along with a copy of the check you sent me. My attorney agrees that you have broken the contract that was made that you agreed to before cashing my checks, which according to him, gives me full rights to sue you and to file civil and criminal charges against you for fraud. I have already put in a call to the district 3 & 6 police stations in Milwaukee to make them aware of the situation and I made it clear to them what my plans are if you do not refund me of all outstanding monies owed to me ($3,228) by January 25th 2005. I am giving you ample time to come up with the money and to refund me in full.

If you fail to refund in full ($3,228) by January 25th 2005, I will go forward with the civil and criminal charges against you for fraud. In addition to that I will also most definitely sue you for the amount you owe me PLUS every dime that I spend on attorney fees and all other suit/case related costs.

I will ask you one last time very kindly to please refund me the all outstanding monies of $3,228.00 by the January 25th deadline to avoid prosecution to it's fullest.

Please send the money payable to............


Will that work? What should I change?
 
well, I cannot consult you on this without knowing all the details, documents etc. The forum is not the place for legal consultation, only an attorney with full knowledge of the details can do that.

Generally I would shorten the letter and focus on the demand for restitution.

Also it might not be correct to say that you had a contract with her, the way you described it, you had a contract with this Chris and he assigned his rights to her. He is the one who breached the contract.
 
I fully understand the your position on the forum and I respect it.

The reason I said she made a contract was because she apparently owns the business or runs the show at whatever they're doing over there. Chris basically worked for her and he is my only contact, and the only way I can contact this lady. I'm trying to leave him out of it as much as i can, because if he feels threatened then he will stop returning emails and taking calls from me and if he does that, then i'm as good as screwed out of my money.

I will touch up the letter I've written and send it off. I want to thank you for your Personal Opinions on this situtation and I will keep you updated.

Thanks again

Derek
 
ah, if he worked for her, this is different, then you probably had the contract with her. Any way, the important thing is that she took the money and they did not fulfill their obligation, so they got unjustly enriched and have to restitute.
 
New update.....

New Update........


Well I sent out the letter and she received it. She called immeadiately. This is the first time I've ever talked to her. Come to my suprise, she's never owned a business and has never been involved in the pocketbike selling scheme that Chris was running. Chris was pointing the finger at Carol from day 1. She called extremely shocked and scared about the letter because she had no idea Chris owed anybody money still. Chris had promised her everybody had been paid. Along with my letter she received 2 more letters for 700.00 each from other people. Carol gave me all chris's real information. He had given me a fake name and a fake organization that he was involved in. Carol, who no longer lives with chris gave me all his information which will come in handy when i go after his ass.

Carol gave me some good info on Chris. She said that he involved himself in a Missing Children Group in his area and apparently he was collecting donations to help fund the effort to find missing children and Carol said that he would keep the money and not even put it towards the cause it was intended for. Carol said that Chris would do anything so that he wouldn't have to work, thus the reason for keeping the donation money. Carol also stated that he was abusive in the relationship, which was the reason she moved out and got a restraining order against him.

Another interesting thing Carol told me was that Chris wanted to buy a motorcycle but since he has no credit he wanted to use Carol to put the bike in her name. Apparently Carol said that her and Chris made a written agreement that she would only do it if her agreed to pay back everybody he owed money to. He agreed and signed the contract. When it came time to buy the bike he had lied to her and told her that everybody had been paid and he spent 4k on the motorcycle instead of paying me the $3228.00 he owed me and the 2 other people he owed 700.00 to. Chris seems to be the dictionary definition of " Scum ".

I told Carol that whether they were a team or not, the money went in her name and into her account (which they shared) therefore i would come after both of them come the January 25th deadline. This is when she gave me all the information about Chris. After talking to her, it was obvious that she had no idea any of it was going on. Carol said she would without a doubt take the stand against Chris to take his ass down. She wishes there was something she could do to help the people he owed money to but she said he emptied the account and she closed it before it went negative. She told me she's never been more then a waitress and would never make enough money to repay the amounts that needed to be repaid. She is going to send me a copy of the contract they made about how he had to repay all the people he owed money to before he could buy the bike that was in her name. She now knows that he failed to do it and lied to her. The bike is still in her name and i told her to go to the police with the contract and title of the bike in her name and to have the bike removed from him for it belonged to her.

I'm going to give Carol a couple days to send met he contract then I'm going to drop another DEMAND letter but this one to Chris. I will use all the fire power Carol gave me, which includes broken contracts and 2 counts of fraud as a threatening point bury him in court if he failed to pay me the money he owes me.

Am I on the right path?
Is another Demand letter the next step I should take?

Thanks
Derek
 
well, all this is nice and fine but doesn't actually affect your claim against this Chris. You can send as many demand letters as you want but I would now think about suing him. Of course, one thing you need to carefully think about: it looks like this guy does not have much. So you need to evaluate your costs in pursuing the lawsuit AND the collection of the judgment and compare it to the probability of collecting. It would be bad to throw good money after bad one.
 
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